how can someone...

[SgtD]

...who listens to punk not like hardcore????
it's odd in my eyes

[xsecx]

...who listens to punk not like hardcore????
it's odd in my eyes

I don't like punk. so I can see how it'd be possible.

[SgtD]

I don't like punk. so I can see how it'd be possible.
well, this guy i know only likes stuff like the sex pistols, but he doesn"t like discharge, and all the other fast and agressive punk bands, let alone hardcore. it just seems odd to me, you would expect him to like more agressive music if he likes those grandpa punk bands. i hope this makes sense

[straightXed]

well, this guy i know only likes stuff like the sex pistols, but he doesn"t like discharge, and all the other fast and agressive punk bands, let alone hardcore. it just seems odd to me, you would expect him to like more agressive music if he likes those grandpa punk bands. i hope this makes sense


Yeah but the sex pistols get played at discos, its not even that edgy for the mainstream music. Its just a bit shock horror gimmicky, look at the foul mouthed delinquents, thats how they were marketed and thats part of the reason the punk boom dsissolved quite quickly, it was just a flash in the pan fad after it had been milked. Music wise they are catchy tunes not to far removed from industry made bands like busted, lyrically they caused a bit of a stir but then there has always been money in shock value. A load of indie kids liked sex pistols when i was growing up because they were also big into PIL and leftfield and lydon stuff.

I don't like punk either, it all seems a bit daft to me, the idea behind it is a little laughable and the aggression doesn't strike any chords with me. Theres a lot of aggressive bands and acts but i think identifying with what they are aggressive about is different to just enjoying the end result of a bands/acts output, sure after a while it may influence fans to get behind the agression a little but thats just like getting behind a team at a baseball game, at least thats how i see it at times.

[kelly]

Yeah but the sex pistols get played at discos, its not even that edgy for the mainstream music. Its just a bit shock horror gimmicky, look at the foul mouthed delinquents, thats how they were marketed and thats part of the reason the punk boom dsissolved quite quickly, it was just a flash in the pan fad after it had been milked. Music wise they are catchy tunes not to far removed from industry made bands like busted, lyrically they caused a bit of a stir but then there has always been money in shock value. A load of indie kids liked sex pistols when i was growing up because they were also big into PIL and leftfield and lydon stuff.

I don't like punk either, it all seems a bit daft to me, the idea behind it is a little laughable and the aggression doesn't strike any chords with me. Theres a lot of aggressive bands and acts but i think identifying with what they are aggressive about is different to just enjoying the end result of a bands/acts output, sure after a while it may influence fans to get behind the agression a little but thats just like getting behind a team at a baseball game, at least thats how i see it at times.
Punk? daft? You people are weird.

[xsecx]

Punk? daft? You people are weird.

you like making statements and then never actually explaining them.

[straightXed]

Punk? daft? You people are weird.


Yeah, it ultimately was so daft that it didn't have much foresight to become anything more than a passing fad. But thanks for your input.

[Fod]

Punk and Hardcore are so close that is almost impossible to not like one and like the other. especially with alot of the harder punk bands its almost hardcore and the same with the slower hardcore bands.

[xsecx]

Punk and Hardcore are so close that is almost impossible to not like one and like the other. especially with alot of the harder punk bands its almost hardcore and the same with the slower hardcore bands.

one is alive and one is dead. how are they that close? what would count as a slower hardcore band?

[stepinsideissue]

Are we talking real punk or all these pop rock fake punk bands like greenday, offspring, fall out boy etc.

[stepinsideissue]

And then what about ska? People like punk or hXc but not ska. Which i guess ska now a days is punk ska.

[xsecx]

Are we talking real punk or all these pop rock fake punk bands like greenday, offspring, fall out boy etc.

what would real punk be now?

[xsecx]

And then what about ska? People like punk or hXc but not ska. Which i guess ska now a days is punk ska.

ska isn't really related to either punk or hardcore.

[straightXed]

Punk and Hardcore are so close that is almost impossible to not like one and like the other. especially with alot of the harder punk bands its almost hardcore and the same with the slower hardcore bands.


Punk is a useless term nowadays, it doesn't exist as any one defined thing, it became something that lived within record marketing, fashion marketing, its even used to describe practicle jokes on music television, there is no element of it that stands true to its original conception and its become an easy marketable slogan/package to make money. Punk ate itself almost instantaneously by essentially being against itself, when people describe certain bands as hardcore punk, its a nonsense. It doesn't relate to a uniquity of being punk its just a term with as much validation as groovey hardcore. Punk was daft, what people refer to as punk now is even dafter but hell, its a money maker so let 'em at it.

[straightXed]

And then what about ska? People like punk or hXc but not ska. Which i guess ska now a days is punk ska.

I used to play in a ska band!

[stepinsideissue]

what would real punk be now?

That is what I was saying.

[stepinsideissue]

ska isn't really related to either punk or hardcore.

That's kind of what I was getting at too. Alot of people group ska with punk for some reason.

[stepinsideissue]

I used to play in a ska band!


Did you really?

[straightXed]

Did you really?

well what do you think?

[SgtD]

well what do you think?
time to tell your story with the socks and the drumkit again!

[straightXed]

time to tell your story with the socks and the drumkit again!

oh yeah, i was in a ska band with a crazy drummer, although we weren't as much of a ska band at that point.

[XvagueprophetX]

on ska bands...

horn players in ska bands have one of the coolest jobs in the world. they toot their horns for like 2 seconds, then they dance, then they toot a little bit again, and dance around a lot... they really only play for like a tenth of the song but still get all the perks of being in a band... plus they don't have to lug around big instruments and rigs.

[livithezombie]

ska isn't really related to either punk or hardcore.

most 'ska' bands nowadays are either skapunk or skacore, or else they are labelled as traditional ska or reggae/ska.

[livithezombie]

one is alive and one is dead. how are they that close? what would count as a slower hardcore band?
punk isnt a dead movement. Just because it is underground doesnt mean it doesnt exsist, and there are lots of poppunk bands on major labels, its just whether or not you call them punk that is the argument

[straightXed]

punk isnt a dead movement. Just because it is underground doesnt mean it doesnt exsist, and there are lots of poppunk bands on major labels, its just whether or not you call them punk that is the argument


what people refer to as punk nowadays isn't punk at all, punk died a long time ago.

[livithezombie]

what people refer to as punk nowadays isn't punk at all, punk died a long time ago.
well...i wasnt actually alive when punk was a new movement, but ive gathered that punk was like 3 three things-
three chords and some shouting
a fashion
and a political idea
and there are still bands who use all these things in their music, but they are on DIY labels so you have to search for them.

[straightXed]

well...i wasnt actually alive when punk was a new movement, but ive gathered that punk was like 3 three things-
three chords and some shouting
a fashion
and a political idea
and there are still bands who use all these things in their music, but they are on DIY labels so you have to search for them.

Except the concept of punk pretty much ate itself from its conception, the very inclusion of fashion destroyed it an prepetuated something that was more of an empty shell rather than the initial thing. That said, there is a accepted idea of what punk fashion is but thats something that is constantly rehashed and remarketed and as such is also continually going against the initial ethos of punk. The pollitical idea behind punk also helped destroy it almost completely, bands that came after adopted a much different pollitical stance, but initially it was completely anti-establishment and nihilistic. Elements and influences of punk can be found in so many places but punk itself as a movement died or at best found people evolving in new areas and becoming something new. Unfortunately because of the huge flash in the pan that punk was it became an easy cath all term for lots of things. And the term gets reused more than ever to describe things that really have no similarity to punk or at least very little.

You can find a lot of bands with similar musical stylings to punk, or even bands that still dress like punks, i live near a city that was huge in the late seventies for UK punk, those bands still play but theres nothing new happening and definitely nothing punk coming out anymore. It did die, i mean the meteors played in my town the other day but i have no doubt that psychobilly is dead and gone. Punk itself is dead, gone, an idea and movement that is no longer meaningful or relevent and one that pretty much destroyed itself from the outset. That said it has given rise to newer ideas and movements, some good, some completely BAAAAAAD.

[livithezombie]

Except the concept of punk pretty much ate itself from its conception, the very inclusion of fashion destroyed it an prepetuated something that was more of an empty shell rather than the initial thing. That said, there is a accepted idea of what punk fashion is but thats something that is constantly rehashed and remarketed and as such is also continually going against the initial ethos of punk. The pollitical idea behind punk also helped destroy it almost completely, bands that came after adopted a much different pollitical stance, but initially it was completely anti-establishment and nihilistic. Elements and influences of punk can be found in so many places but punk itself as a movement died or at best found people evolving in new areas and becoming something new. Unfortunately because of the huge flash in the pan that punk was it became an easy cath all term for lots of things. And the term gets reused more than ever to describe things that really have no similarity to punk or at least very little.

You can find a lot of bands with similar musical stylings to punk, or even bands that still dress like punks, i live near a city that was huge in the late seventies for UK punk, those bands still play but theres nothing new happening and definitely nothing punk coming out anymore. It did die, i mean the meteors played in my town the other day but i have no doubt that psychobilly is dead and gone. Punk itself is dead, gone, an idea and movement that is no longer meaningful or relevent and one that pretty much destroyed itself from the outset. That said it has given rise to newer ideas and movements, some good, some completely BAAAAAAD.
i hate giving in.... but that was very well put. you win

[straightXed]

i hate giving in.... but that was very well put. you win

I don't really see it as a win/lose thing, i didn't type that in order to win, or to make you lose. Its more about sharing knowledge and ideas in my eyes.

[livithezombie]

I don't really see it as a win/lose thing, i didn't type that in order to win, or to make you lose. Its more about sharing knowledge and ideas in my eyes.
yeah, wrong choise of words on my part.

[killislove]

I don't like to listen to oldschool-classic punk. I can have a taste for hardcore and really want to hear a certain song by As I lay Dying (for example) But i never really want to hear a Rancid song or a Sex Pistols song or a Casualties song. But that's just me. I don't think that there is as huge a connection between Hardcore and Punk as there is between like, uh, hardcore and some scream-o. I know tons of dudes who listen to hardcore but would never listen to some screaming emo music even though it sounds so very similar.

Here's an example, From Autum to Ashes's song, Alive out of Habit, isn't really all that far from Evergreen Terraces's song, Dear Livejournal. I mean sure there are structural diffences in the songs and they do sound different but they both are trying to sing at some points and trying to scream at others. i dunno, maybe it's just me but i think that sounds more alike than comparing Hardcore to the Pistols. You know what i mean?

[straightXed]

I don't like to listen to oldschool-classic punk. I can have a taste for hardcore and really want to hear a certain song by As I lay Dying (for example) But i never really want to hear a Rancid song or a Sex Pistols song or a Casualties song. But that's just me. I don't think that there is as huge a connection between Hardcore and Punk as there is between like, uh, hardcore and some scream-o. I know tons of dudes who listen to hardcore but would never listen to some screaming emo music even though it sounds so very similar.

Here's an example, From Autum to Ashes's song, Alive out of Habit, isn't really all that far from Evergreen Terraces's song, Dear Livejournal. I mean sure there are structural diffences in the songs and they do sound different but they both are trying to sing at some points and trying to scream at others. i dunno, maybe it's just me but i think that sounds more alike than comparing Hardcore to the Pistols. You know what i mean?

is this post just to name drop some really bad bands? Or is it an add for hot topic?

[killislove]

is this post just to name drop some really bad bands? Or is it an add for hot topic?


I was trying to make some sort of argument, without being a condescending asshole like yourself, to which people would respond. So if this is your response then, oh yah ha-ha you are fucking hilarious. But if you really disagree with me so deeply then fucking make a point and stand against what I said so I can see it your way, tough guy. i mean what are you saying, that this modern metalcore meets hardcore meets emo-type lyrics is in no way some how related to hardcore? And that infact original punk is more closely related? .. or are you jsut saying nothing at all other than you like to shop at hot topic and think you can cleverly pick out bad band name titles?

[rodrigo]

I don't like to listen to oldschool-classic punk. I can have a taste for hardcore and really want to hear a certain song by As I lay Dying (for example) But i never really want to hear a Rancid song or a Sex Pistols song or a Casualties song.


rancid is not "oldschool-classic punk"

[straightXed]

I was trying to make some sort of argument, without being a condescending asshole like yourself, to which people would respond.

Wow, are you so insecure that when someone responds with something you don't want to hear or accept that you immediately resort to insults?




So if this is your response then, oh yah ha-ha you are fucking hilarious.

Actually it was a light hearted joke with a point that is very relevent but it seems you are unable to see it.


But if you really disagree with me so deeply then fucking make a point and stand against what I said so I can see it your way, tough guy.

Again with the name calling, when did my post even pertain to me being a tough guy? And the point is what you were discussing as hardcore isn't actually hardcore and doesn't represent hardcore and in fact represents what hardcore stands against. The connection between hardcore and punk is simple, hardcore came about as reaction to all the things that kids didn't like about the punk scene. Hardcoire doesn't sound similar to sreamo or anything like that.



i mean what are you saying, that this modern metalcore meets hardcore meets emo-type lyrics is in no way some how related to hardcore? And that infact original punk is more closely related?

Well jump to all the conclusions you like but the point is hardcore is completely different from punk and all these shitty hot topic bands you mentioned.


.. or are you jsut saying nothing at all other than you like to shop at hot topic and think you can cleverly pick out bad band name titles?

Actually i have never shopped at hot topic and actually really hate everything it stands for but what i was actually saying or rather asking is "is this post just to name drop some really bad bands? Or is it an add for hot topic?" And i noticed in all your hot tempered response you actually never answered the question posed to you.

[killislove]

rancid is not "oldschool-classic punk"

then what the hell is old school, original, classic punk fucking rock? I'm not not agreeing with you, it's just that rancid sounds a lot more punk rock then the "punk" shit that's making thier first albums right now. So what can be considered true, old school type punk rock? Only the stuff that came out when the age of punk was actually coming out? - because other members have mentioned how looking back from now the sex pistols weren't even too punk and maybe even kinda mainstream. I mean, if we are gonan talk old punk vs. new punk and the sex pistols and rancid is out, what the hell are we talking about. Seriously, im not trying to be bitchy, i'm really curious as to what bands would uphold this ideal we keep talking about.

[killislove]

Wow, are you so insecure that when someone responds with something you don't want to hear or accept that you immediately resort to insults?





Actually it was a light hearted joke with a point that is very relevent but it seems you are unable to see it.



Again with the name calling, when did my post even pertain to me being a tough guy? And the point is what you were discussing as hardcore isn't actually hardcore and doesn't represent hardcore and in fact represents what hardcore stands against. The connection between hardcore and punk is simple, hardcore came about as reaction to all the things that kids didn't like about the punk scene. Hardcoire doesn't sound similar to sreamo or anything like that.




Well jump to all the conclusions you like but the point is hardcore is completely different from punk and all these shitty hot topic bands you mentioned.



Actually i have never shopped at hot topic and actually really hate everything it stands for but what i was actually saying or rather asking is "is this post just to name drop some really bad bands? Or is it an add for hot topic?" And i noticed in all your hot tempered response you actually never answered the question posed to you.


I have no idea what type of response you are wanting from me. You were the one first insulting my opinion and my question from the get-go with your rhetorical type questions. I mean, what am i supposed to say...? "yes i am an add maker for hot topic and yes i only wasted my time responding so that i could write down as many bad band names as fast as possbily." ... one would think that your sarcastic response is totally picking fun of, and insulting, my post. Which is fine dude - you insult me and i insult you, i mean isn't that how this shit works? Yeah you were right i didn't want to hear a joke i wanted to hear feed back, that's what message boards are for. So thanks for your feed back and next time it would be nice if you'd spare a little not too humorous sarcasm that can easily be read as an insult. Thanks.

[straightXed]

then what the hell is old school, original, classic punk fucking rock? I'm not not agreeing with you, it's just that rancid sounds a lot more punk rock then the "punk" shit that's making thier first albums right now. So what can be considered true, old school type punk rock? Only the stuff that came out when the age of punk was actually coming out? - because other members have mentioned how looking back from now the sex pistols weren't even too punk and maybe even kinda mainstream. I mean, if we are gonan talk old punk vs. new punk and the sex pistols and rancid is out, what the hell are we talking about. Seriously, im not trying to be bitchy, i'm really curious as to what bands would uphold this ideal we keep talking about.

I wouldn't call punk an ideal but for some it obviously is, unfortunately its one that stood no chance of furthering itself much due to its inherent self destruction. Sex pistols being on EMI kind of fall at the first hurdle of being punk. Maybe bands like crass or conflict more closely resemble the ideal of punk although they do seem to have somewhat removed themselves from some of the initial ideas of punk, but it would be impossible to go on without doing so, i mean the idea of one element of punk always seems to go against another idea within the same structure. Basically its meaningless as a word nowadays and sums up so many different ideas from mtv pop, fashion in a shopping mall, to DIY ethics and underground political bands all of which either go against each other or themselves.

[stepinsideissue]

then what the hell is old school, original, classic punk fucking rock? I'm not not agreeing with you, it's just that rancid sounds a lot more punk rock then the "punk" shit that's making thier first albums right now. So what can be considered true, old school type punk rock? Only the stuff that came out when the age of punk was actually coming out? - because other members have mentioned how looking back from now the sex pistols weren't even too punk and maybe even kinda mainstream. I mean, if we are gonan talk old punk vs. new punk and the sex pistols and rancid is out, what the hell are we talking about. Seriously, im not trying to be bitchy, i'm really curious as to what bands would uphold this ideal we keep talking about.


Well I wouldn't consider any ( with the excption of a few) of these " new wave punk bands" as punk bands. May be my intrepritation is worng but Dead Kennedys, Dead milk men, Black Flag, the NY Dolls, the Clash, DRI, the Butthole surfers,The Sex Pistols, (though they were more a marketing ploy and advertisement than a punk band ) are some for starters.

[straightXed]

I have no idea what type of response you are wanting from me. You were the one first insulting my opinion and my question from the get-go with your rhetorical type questions.

How did i insult you? And it wasn't a rhetorical question.



I mean, what am i supposed to say...? "yes i am an add maker for hot topic and yes i only wasted my time responding so that i could write down as many bad band names as fast as possbily."

If that was the honest answer then yes.



... one would think that your sarcastic response is totally picking fun of, and insulting, my post. Which is fine dude - you insult me and i insult you, i mean isn't that how this shit works?

You get insulted pretty easy and then retort by making personal remarks, your post actually did contain a lot of band names all of which are on that hot topic bandwagon, so my post was actually pretty accurate in asking that question. I could have insulted you but i didn't i just asked a question as to weather or not your post was more about you wanting to discuss those bands and the hot topic part was the humour yet relevent to the theme of discussion. Fact remains they aren't hardcore bands and that needed clearing up first.



Yeah you were right i didn't want to hear a joke i wanted to hear feed back, that's what message boards are for.

I never said that you didn't want to hear a joke. And the comment was feedback in form of a question, message boards are alowed humour and questions too you know!?



So thanks for your feed back and next time it would be nice if you'd spare a little not too humorous sarcasm that can easily be read as an insult. Thanks.

Well next time don't be so fucking precious you egocentric little shit. Thanks

[rodrigo]

then what the hell is old school, original, classic punk fucking rock? I'm not not agreeing with you, it's just that rancid sounds a lot more punk rock then the "punk" shit that's making thier first albums right now. So what can be considered true, old school type punk rock? Only the stuff that came out when the age of punk was actually coming out? - because other members have mentioned how looking back from now the sex pistols weren't even too punk and maybe even kinda mainstream. I mean, if we are gonan talk old punk vs. new punk and the sex pistols and rancid is out, what the hell are we talking about. Seriously, im not trying to be bitchy, i'm really curious as to what bands would uphold this ideal we keep talking about.

rancid cant be "oldschool classic punk" because they are not old school
they started in nineteen ninety-something

[rodrigo]

Well I wouldn't consider any ( with the excption of a few) of these " new wave punk bands" as punk bands. May be my intrepritation is worng but Dead Kennedys, Dead milk men, Black Flag, the NY Dolls, the Clash, DRI, the Butthole surfers,The Sex Pistols, (though they were more a marketing ploy and advertisement than a punk band ) are some for starters.

yeah, but the sex pistols sucks

[straightXed]

rancid cant be "oldschool classic punk" because they are not old school
they started in nineteen ninety-something

1991

[stepinsideissue]

yeah, but the sex pistols sucks


I didn't think so till Filthy Lucre Live. When Johnny Rotten uttered the words " fat forty and back " that was a sad moment and probably the moment I knew that true punk music had died. Almost 10yrs after it really had.