sXe & sEx

[xCrucialDudex]

Hi everybody!

This is my first post in here, I hope this is the right place to start a discussion.
This message is a verbatim copy of the message left on the Google Groups but people out there doesn't seem to be much enthusiastic so here we are.


Hello everybody!

I've been thinking for a certain amount of time about sXe trends and
its take on sexual interrelations. Yes, it's up to you to decide
whether you do anything you consider harmful to yourself or do not, but
I on my own can't come to an unequivocal decision.

Well, let's say I'm straight and single. I'm not obsessed with sex, I'm
not sexist and I just can't find a proper peer. Well, happens, doesn't
it? =) I don't want to fuck around just because sometimes I get a
sudden burst of desire whatever. Even before I came across
straight-edge notion I was into mastering my own will resisting all
sort of temptations. Well, I can control myself in situations when most
of people just _refuse_ to control themselves ONLY because they get too
much excited. That was always stupid from my point of view and I was
always thinking that that's damn wrong. I just felt it.

Sometimes I ask myself the question: Am I lucky or not? Whatever answer
can be it doesn't matter much, because I am what I am.

I'm twenty one years old and my organism is pretty young and fresh. I
didn't spoil it too much with drugs, but yes I used to smoke and drink
alcohol, but not much. I gave it up completely in one shot. A lot of
people say I am to be proud of myself even those who are not straight.
I just feel it right, it's the way things should be with me, and it's
definitely not like smoking and drinking or fucking each and other girl
I see. Well, I've got a straight-edge! =)

Allright, let's get to the point and talk about sXe and sEx. I did read
the FAQ through, and people say that Ian's "postulat" "don't smoke,
don't drink, don't fuck" was never meant to prohibit anything
completely or to serve as any kind of ideology. Contemporary
straight-edge community tends to base its regulations upon these three
simple and by all means wise don'ts suggested by Minor Threat's leader.
So if Ian himself didn't say that you're not to have sexual life at
all, and that these don'ts are not any kind or rules then where does
the line between what's right or wrong can be drawn?

For instance, we are all in here say no to one night stands. How about
one-week/month romances?
Would you straight guys and girls engage yourself in sex with a partner
if you know for sure there's only 1 week or 1 month? Would you do the
same if you're not sure about stability of your relationships? Say your
boy- girl-friend might break up with you quite soon would you?

If you say no, it's clear that you might have a very scarce sexual
life. The question is: "Is it good or bad for you personally?" Current
western-like society's mindset implies that to have no sexual life is a
disastrous catastrophe =) It makes me smile, sometimes laugh, honestly
:) I can get along without even thinking about sex for months.

The core question I'm about to formulate is more ethical or, perhaps,
even philosophical.

Having no partner you indulge in masturbation, no matter whether it is
quite frequent or not. The fact is that you sort of having sex with
yourself but not with a physical counterpart which is the way things
are ment to be.

Are there any straight-edgers who gave up masturbation and sex life
(due to the sequence of circumstances or perhaps deliberate will)
completely? Are there? Tell me please, I really need to know.

Are there anyone who has no physical counterpart and indulge themselves
in masturbation quite (in)frequently? Tell me, I really need to know.

Well, now let's be honest folks. Do you feel allright about having sex
with yourself on your own? If you do masturbate quite frequently do you
think it's allright? If you do, do you ever feel it not allright? =) If
so, when?

As for me I've no physical counterpart currently though I could. Yes
sometimes I indulge quite frequently in masturbation but lately have
started to control myself more and more, because I noticed that even
too much masturbation (if it's the source of anxiety) leads to mental
damage. What I mean is that you get hooked with everlasting desire for
pleasure, and that's the point, mentally you get addicted not to the
process of squeezing your pennis and giving it a piston motion like in
a car engine, but your weakness to refuse yourself in satisfying your
own desire.

Well, from that point of view if I've no normal sexual life and give up
masturbation because it's sometimes very hard to identify the edge
between need and desire, we face situation where we have no sexual
activity at all.

It's not that really bad, but do you really think that things are ment
to be this way?

It's now clear to me and hopefully to the others that probably it's
stupid to go that way. You might as well ask doctors to asexulize
yourself, but this is definitely even more stupid. Whatever it is God
or Nature you're given your sexual identity and I guess you're not
given the right to deprive yourself of it.

Soooo, it's all about your ability to identify where is the edge
dividing Good and Bad, your real requirement and subtle desire for
pleasure, the edge that divides pleasure for sake of your life and
pleasure which causes you a mental damage.

Supposing I'm right in my judgement and you agree with me, I want to
ask you my dear strong-willed brothers and sisters how do you think one
may practise his skill in defining the edge between those things so
that one has pleasure for the sake of life and refuses negative impact
of subtle perversion?

It's clear that to practise such a skill one should have sex activity,
because no theory matters until you start practising. Do we commit a
lot of mistakes for the sake of skillful mastery, or do we what?

Your turn ladies and gentelmen.

Any ideas, comments, objections and suggestions are _eagerly_ welcomed!

I live in Ukraine and I don't really know a lot of people like me. If I
say "straight-edge" in the street almost none will understand me, so I
seek for the answers and communication here, with you.

Thanks to all of you who managed to get through the whole message and
didn't get bored =)

Cheerz sXe-kidz =)

So, this is it.

[xsecx]

Hi everybody!

This is my first post in here, I hope this is the right place to start a discussion.
This message is a verbatim copy of the message left on the Google Groups but people out there doesn't seem to be much enthusiastic so here we are.



So, this is it.

I honestly believe that sex and edge aren't and shouldn't be related and aren't really reflected at all in how people actually live their lives. Recreational drug use covers everything else, there's a common bond and clear line of thinking. WHen you introduce the idea of sex into it, everything gets really cloudy. What would be breaking edge in terms of sex? What's ok and what isn't? With drugs and alcohol it's really clear, with sex, not so much.

[xCrucialDudex]

WHen you introduce the idea of sex into it, everything gets really cloudy. What would be breaking edge in terms of sex? What's ok and what isn't? With drugs and alcohol it's really clear, with sex, not so much.

xsecx, that's the point!
You see, the implication of the topic title doesn't mean any kind of interconnection between straight-edge as notion and sex.

The most important is what you've said:

With drugs and alcohol it's really clear, with sex, not so much.

The subsequent question must be: "Why is that?". Right?
If one gives up drugs/alcohol it's clear. It's a straight edge action, i.e. you either do or do not.

Insofar sex is not a thing to give up completely, as this is a really stupid decision, we face the situation where a straight action is not really applicable.

I tried to express the idea in the qotation in the 1st post, but perhaps it's not that simple for understanding. Or, alternatively, I didn't succeed in formulating a clear cut phrase.

Ok, I'll try to reformulate what I said in short and touch upon old burning issue.

It seems like "Don't fuck" grows into paranoidal tendency and people interpret it as a whole or complete abstinence from sex. As for me personally I did never thought of it that way, particularly it always meant to me a sort of "wise decision about having sex". The initial issue with this sxe-sex copula is that _REDUNDANCY OF/PROMISCUOUS SEX LEADS TO DAMAGE (that's what sXe, as I understand (please, correct me if I'm wrong), is against; again, I draw your attention to the implied meaning: I'm not talking about interconnection between sxe and sex but their relation)_.

The damage can be either physical and/or mental. Sex is not a drug thing, and it's not an alcohol thing either, so we just can't give it up, or do we can? Even we do can, what's the point in doing that? If it's a premarital abstention or faithful belief in commitment to the "right" people - that's great, and is really OK.

Straight-edge means "Think For Yourself", and that's why I'm not seeking a kill-all-the-points answer, but just want you guys and girls to help me out and clarify some of the points. After all, I love to think for myself =)

We know that the edge between drugs/alcohol is defined by simple "Do" or "Do Not". As with sex we have a complex algorithm. We "do only if the statement is true" and we "do not if another statement is true or false". Just for example. What is meant:

- You're straight if you don't do drugs and alcohol
- You're not straight if you do drugs and/or alcohol

then goes sex

- You're straight if you do or don't have sex;
- You're not straight if you do or don't have sex;

You see? That's the problem. To deny is the easiest way to do things when you don't really understand anything. I dare to say this is why so many people interpret Ian's "don't fuck" as a denial of abundant and/or promiscuous sex. I guess it'd be better to ask Ian himself what this "don't fuck" mean to him, right? Whatever answer may be, it's up to you to decide whether you follow his idea or not. This is not about straight-edge, it's about clinging to someone's idea.

SOOOO, the core question is where's the clear cut edge when we talk about sex and try to define whether we're gonna have it or not.

As an example which is touching upon the same issue I wrote about masturbation as a subsequent result of denying sex activity. The problem remains the same, masturbation in itself is a physically wellfounded demand of the organism. You know guys if you don't have sex for a while and don't masturbate there's a day when you organism will let the sperm out at a nighttime when your organism is relaxed and your mind isn't fully awake and is able to control some of your organism functions.

So, I hope that you do agree that from that point of view masturbation is quite the same thing done by you personally. Sounds pretty good, but there's a difference: when you're asleep you, yes it might be but not really happening always, might be dreaming an erotical dream. This is not always the case, mind it. Even if it is so, it always has almost no influence on you. Yes, you might be thinking of nauty/pleasant dream for a while in the morning at your breakfast and that's it. The other way round, when you deliberately indulge into masturbation you're either stimulated to have one - it may be anything: movie scene, an extract from a book, some sexy image on advert, whatever, you name it; or you go even further and picture to yourself sexual scenes. Quite a common thing, I'd say. So, in this case there's a probability to lose control over your mental sanity, if it's a proper word, for a while. The sex itself is an act full of instincts, you remove control for a moment and you may realize that you wind up in thrilling fantasies of your mind, which finds its break through at this moment, since you, straight-edgers, master control over it all the possible time.

If you ever felt what I'm talking about you must be getting the point of my mumble. Naturally, if you're inclined to resist your own "self-perversness" you may indeed come to a conclusion just like I: the masturbation is physically wellfounded and is a natural demand of the organism, but it's tricky and can get you into vice circle, your own, which is hard to escape.

As well as sex, by the way.

Again, I draw your attention that this may be an explanation why so many people tend to interpret "don't fuck" found in the song as a partial or complete denial of sex activity. And also, again, I'm asking you where's a clear cut or at least obvious enough edge between what is ok and what is not.

That's what I'm about.

[xsecx]

xsecx, that's the point!
You see, the implication of the topic title doesn't mean any kind of interconnection between straight-edge as notion and sex.

The most important is what you've said:


The subsequent question must be: "Why is that?". Right?
If one gives up drugs/alcohol it's clear. It's a straight edge action, i.e. you either do or do not.

Insofar sex is not a thing to give up completely, as this is a really stupid decision, we face the situation where a straight action is not really applicable.

I tried to express the idea in the qotation in the 1st post, but perhaps it's not that simple for understanding. Or, alternatively, I didn't succeed in formulating a clear cut phrase.

Ok, I'll try to reformulate what I said in short and touch upon old burning issue.

It seems like "Don't fuck" grows into paranoidal tendency and people interpret it as a whole or complete abstinence from sex. As for me personally I did never thought of it that way, particularly it always meant to me a sort of "wise decision about having sex". The initial issue with this sxe-sex copula is that _REDUNDANCY OF/PROMISCUOUS SEX LEADS TO DAMAGE (that's what sXe, as I understand (please, correct me if I'm wrong), is against; again, I draw your attention to the implied meaning: I'm not talking about interconnection between sxe and sex but their relation)_.

The damage can be either physical and/or mental. Sex is not a drug thing, and it's not an alcohol thing either, so we just can't give it up, or do we can? Even we do can, what's the point in doing that? If it's a premarital abstention or faithful belief in commitment to the "right" people - that's great, and is really OK.

Straight-edge means "Think For Yourself", and that's why I'm not seeking a kill-all-the-points answer, but just want you guys and girls to help me out and clarify some of the points. After all, I love to think for myself =)

We know that the edge between drugs/alcohol is defined by simple "Do" or "Do Not". As with sex we have a complex algorithm. We "do only if the statement is true" and we "do not if another statement is true or false". Just for example. What is meant:

- You're straight if you don't do drugs and alcohol
- You're not straight if you do drugs and/or alcohol

then goes sex

- You're straight if you do or don't have sex;
- You're not straight if you do or don't have sex;

You see? That's the problem. To deny is the easiest way to do things when you don't really understand anything. I dare to say this is why so many people interpret Ian's "don't fuck" as a denial of abundant and/or promiscuous sex. I guess it'd be better to ask Ian himself what this "don't fuck" mean to him, right? Whatever answer may be, it's up to you to decide whether you follow his idea or not. This is not about straight-edge, it's about clinging to someone's idea.

SOOOO, the core question is where's the clear cut edge when we talk about sex and try to define whether we're gonna have it or not.

As an example which is touching upon the same issue I wrote about masturbation as a subsequent result of denying sex activity. The problem remains the same, masturbation in itself is a physically wellfounded demand of the organism. You know guys if you don't have sex for a while and don't masturbate there's a day when you organism will let the sperm out at a nighttime when your organism is relaxed and your mind isn't fully awake and is able to control some of your organism functions.

So, I hope that you do agree that from that point of view masturbation is quite the same thing done by you personally. Sounds pretty good, but there's a difference: when you're asleep you, yes it might be but not really happening always, might be dreaming an erotical dream. This is not always the case, mind it. Even if it is so, it always has almost no influence on you. Yes, you might be thinking of nauty/pleasant dream for a while in the morning at your breakfast and that's it. The other way round, when you deliberately indulge into masturbation you're either stimulated to have one - it may be anything: movie scene, an extract from a book, some sexy image on advert, whatever, you name it; or you go even further and picture to yourself sexual scenes. Quite a common thing, I'd say. So, in this case there's a probability to lose control over your mental sanity, if it's a proper word, for a while. The sex itself is an act full of instincts, you remove control for a moment and you may realize that you wind up in thrilling fantasies of your mind, which finds its break through at this moment, since you, straight-edgers, master control over it all the possible time.

If you ever felt what I'm talking about you must be getting the point of my mumble. Naturally, if you're inclined to resist your own "self-perversness" you may indeed come to a conclusion just like I: the masturbation is physically wellfounded and is a natural demand of the organism, but it's tricky and can get you into vice circle, your own, which is hard to escape.

As well as sex, by the way.

Again, I draw your attention that this may be an explanation why so many people tend to interpret "don't fuck" found in the song as a partial or complete denial of sex activity. And also, again, I'm asking you where's a clear cut or at least obvious enough edge between what is ok and what is not.

That's what I'm about.


don't take this the wrong way but your posts are way too long.

I'm saying that sex shouldn't even be discussed when talking about straight edge. That people took the lyrics to out of step and applied them to straight edge, when there just isn't any example of it reflected in either how people live their lives or in the actual culture itself. There aren't articles about sex in zines. There aren't songs talking about it. Bringing up Ian Mackaye's beliefs or thoughts on the subject are also largely irrelevant given his views on what straight edge became.

[xCrucialDudex]

Allright, I see what you mean.

I put it to you: in this topic i suggest to take a look at sex as a drug related issue, since it can:
- be addictive;
- be damage causing.

Now tell me, from this perspective should sex even be discussed when talking about straight-edge?

[xCrucialDudex]

Don't want to offend you, but it seems like you either don't want to take some effort and have a look through my eyes on the issue or you just can't.

[xsecx]

Allright, I see what you mean.

I put it to you: in this topic i suggest to take a look at sex as a drug related issue, since it can:
- be addictive;
- be damage causing.

Now tell me, from this perspective should sex even be discussed when talking about straight-edge?

anything can be addictive and damage causing, that doesn't make them related to edge. Gambling, video games, tattoos, piercings, etc etc also fit that criteria as well as many many other things.

[xsecx]

Don't want to offend you, but it seems like you either don't want to take some effort and have a look through my eyes on the issue or you just can't.

There isn't an issue though. If you want to talk about sex being addictive and harmful, that's a totally seperate conversation from sex being straight edge or not.

[xCrucialDudex]

There isn't an issue though. If you want to talk about sex being addictive and harmful, that's a totally seperate conversation from sex being straight edge or not. hm, you just made me to think.

Allright, you're right. I can't argue it. If sex, as you've pointed out to me, shouldn't be related with straight-edge, and I tried to base my judgement on the dim understanding of sXe and sex relation, would you mind my asking, what's straight-edge then?

I saw some of you, insiders, were suggesting not to trust "shitty web-sites" and go to shows. I'd love to, honestly, but can't. This is why I am asking.