opinions

[ONLYsaneONEleft]

hello everyone im kinda new to the straight edge thing just but lately but i looked into it and decided it was something i want to be a part of. I understand what it is and thats its not just a group of people that dont do drugs and drink and thats its a lifestyle etc. The reason i was driven towards straight edge is that many of my close friends have began drinking and some doing drugs. It started when high schoolers would influence kids younger than them to do drugs and drink and now THOSE kids are affecting other good kids. i dont really know what to do because it IS their choice in what they do but i think at the time of the temptation and pressure, intelligence and common sense step aside. Ive talked to some of them about stopping and only one said that they might TRY to stop but that was just to get me off their back. Pretty soon i think im gonna get physical with them or something because i cant get through to them in any other way.. what does everyone else think i should do?

[xvunderx]

Leave them to make their own choices. You can't make people make the same decisions as you.

Also "getting physical" is the worst and most pointless idea out there. I mean what is that supposed to achieve other than making others that don't drink, and straight edge people look bad?

[kelly]

I agree. You can't force people to make choices, they have to make them for their own reasons or they won't be able to stand by them. If you think someone is doing something that is hurting them, all you can do is talk to them about it reasonably... if they don't listen, there isn't much you can do. Some people need something drastic to happen to see what they are doing. And by drastic, I don't mean you beating them up.

[ONLYsaneONEleft]

so u think i should just let some of my best friends drink and crap like that if thats what they choose to do?

[kelly]

so u think i should just let some of my best friends drink and crap like that if thats what they choose to do?
yep.
although you're free to talk to them about your opinions about drinking.

[xsecx]

so u think i should just let some of my best friends drink and crap like that if thats what they choose to do?

what else are you going to do?

[ONLYsaneONEleft]

what else are you going to do?

Well i was going to talk to the people that really had the greatest influence on my good friends and tell them not to do it around my friends. And probably beat the hell out of them anyway because theyr stupid asses to do that and to affect my friends. One of these guys was a former straight edge but now he does and sells drugs. The straight edge around here have a bad reputation of being just a group of guys that jump people that do drugs. There was a pretty bad jumping where all the edge people brought bats and beat the shit out of one guy. But anyway i was gonna beat the shit out of this former straight edge and all the people that have big influences. They can do it as long as they dont do it around my good friends.

[kelly]

Well i was going to talk to the people that really had the greatest influence on my good friends and tell them not to do it around my friends. And probably beat the hell out of them anyway because theyr stupid asses to do that and to affect my friends. One of these guys was a former straight edge but now he does and sells drugs. The straight edge around here have a bad reputation of being just a group of guys that jump people that do drugs. There was a pretty bad jumping where all the edge people brought bats and beat the shit out of one guy. But anyway i was gonna beat the shit out of this former straight edge and all the people that have big influences. They can do it as long as they dont do it around my good friends.
You're going to get yourself badly hurt, or worse. There's a reason they arrest vigilantes. It's not appropriate for you to judge people wrong and beat them up for it. If someone is actually doing something illegal like selling drugs, call the cops. Otherwise, take yoga or something, you need to relax. You can't stop people from being around your friends. If your friends aren't strong enough to resist bad influences, that's their problem.

[xvunderx]

The straight edge around here have a bad reputation of being just a group of guys that jump people that do drugs.

There's a reason you put the word bad in there, if you think the rep is bad, why would you want to add to it?

Also if people do shit around your friends, it's up to them to be like "i don't want to be around this" and leave, or ask the person to leave, not yours. it's also pretty shitty to assume that your friends are too weak to make their own decisions.

You're around this kinda thing and you don't do drugs, you didn't need any one to beat up the nasties for you. Leave em to find their own path, they're not sheep.

All you can do is talk about your point of view and keep a level head. They already have one friend that is an oposite example to balaence em out, that's a lot more than a lot of people who are drug free or edge have had.

[ONLYsaneONEleft]

well im glad i asked for more opinnions before i did anything stupid.. thanks people.. i guess theyll have to make their own decisions and their own mistakes

[kelly]

well im glad i asked for more opinnions before i did anything stupid.. thanks people.. i guess theyll have to make their own decisions and their own mistakes
sounds good. sometimes mistakes are what help people sort out what they need to do.

[stepinsideissue]

sounds good. sometimes mistakes are what help people sort out what they need to do.


I agree here. Some times people just need a wake up call or to hit rock bottom before they realize thier problems. There is nothing you can do.

[xJon the conx]

i think if you want to beat up the drug dealer and youre not gonna get shot or beat to death then you should, fuck him.

as for your friends beating them up isnt gonna make anyone listen to you, you sound like a pretty young kid the people you know now arent the same people theyre gonna be in a couple years anyhow, alot of my good friends drink, if you can put up with them getting too drunk and telling you about "how much they respect you and blah blah blah" in half a stupor, then you'll get along allright.

[kelly]

i think if you want to beat up the drug dealer and youre not gonna get shot or beat to death then you should, fuck him.

the drug dealer can have you arrested for beating him up. And he might have friends or guns you're unaware of. It seems pretty stupid to advise someone to beat up a drug dealer.

[xJon the conx]

eh its up to him to asess the situation of what the reprecussions will be for his actions, this guy might be al capone, or he might be some skinny coked out weed slinging nerd.

i dont know any of the parties involved but if he's gonna come on a public sxe message board and ask what people think then my honest opinion is that if a striaght edge kid sells out, starts dealing drugs, and then starts getting all of your friends hooked on his shit, then if you can get away with smashing him head in a little, well, fuck him.

[SgtD]

eh its up to him to asess the situation of what the reprecussions will be for his actions, this guy might be al capone, or he might be some skinny coked out weed slinging nerd.

i dont know any of the parties involved but if he's gonna come on a public sxe message board and ask what people think then my honest opinion is that if a striaght edge kid sells out, starts dealing drugs, and then starts getting all of your friends hooked on his shit, then if you can get away with smashing him head in a little, well, fuck him.
as for beating up drug dealers: would you go into a bar and kick the bartender's head in?

[xJon the conx]

as for beating up drug dealers: would you go into a bar and kick the bartender's head in?


well for my part i never said that i would kick a drug dealers head in just for being a drug dealer. there is a distinct difference between walking into a legitimate bar and beating in some guys head who is filling up some old mans glass and a sellout drug dealer peddling junk to your friends in jr. high school.

but if in your scenario some person tells me that he knows of a bartender that is peddling some form of illegal super booze to underage loved ones/friends of mine and i judge that it is a problem that is ruining their lives and then i decides to bash said bartender then i say (as i often do) "fuck it"



i do not believe that straight edge is inherently a violent movement any more than it is a non violent one. but i think that the question of right or wrong as it pertains to violence used to meet any end (political or otherwise) is to be justified by the individual. if that individual is just, then the violence is justified (meth dealers turning your neighborhood into a slum), if he is not just then obviously his decision to use violence is not (jumping some guy standing on a corner smoking a cigarette). as i stated earlier i dont know this kid or the validity of his decision to use violence in his situation.

but while a bunch of kids feed him typical scared wuss responses of "dont do that, you'll get in trouble" i tell him "do what is the right thing to do" alot of people sing along to firestorm when it plays, alot of people pose.

i do not believe in "positivity" for the sake of "positivity" there's alot of negative shit in this world that thrives the longer you ignore it.

[SgtD]

well for my part i never said that i would kick a drug dealers head in just for being a drug dealer. there is a distinct difference between walking into a legitimate bar and beating in some guys head who is filling up some old mans glass and a sellout drug dealer peddling junk to your friends in jr. high school.
but if in your scenario some person tells me that he knows of a bartender that is peddling some form of illegal super booze to underage loved ones/friends of mine and i judge that it is a problem that is ruining their lives and then i decides to bash said bartender then i say (as i often do) "fuck it"

drugs are drugs. legal or illegal, it makes people addicts. why not kick your underage loved ones/friends head in? they were the ones who wanted to get drinks and ruin their lives by that.
i don't really know how you think of "fuck it"' as in fuck it, i'"M gonna beat him the fuck up, or fuck it, it's not worth it.




i do not believe that straight edge is inherently a violent movement any more than it is a non violent one. but i think that the question of right or wrong as it pertains to violence used to meet any end (political or otherwise) is to be justified by the individual. if that individual is just, then the violence is justified (meth dealers turning your neighborhood into a slum), if he is not just then obviously his decision to use violence is not (jumping some guy standing on a corner smoking a cigarette). as i stated earlier i dont know this kid or the validity of his decision to use violence in his situation.
great, how do you decide what is right or wrong, and who is just? also, do you really think it's the dealers that turn the neighbourhood into a slum? how can you say that any violence is justified(except for self defense)??


but while a bunch of kids feed him typical scared wuss responses of "dont do that, you'll get in trouble" i tell him "do what is the right thing to do" alot of people sing along to firestorm when it plays, alot of people pose.
the right thing to do is not getting in useless fights or killed for no reason. there are authorities who's jobs are to handle these things, and people should help their work in any way. i think drug dealers are not the problem. prevention would be far more emphasized, what's the use of a drug dealer who can't sell drugs?
as for your earth crisis reference, you misunderstood the lyrics pretty badly


i do not believe in "positivity" for the sake of "positivity" there's alot of negative shit in this world that thrives the longer you ignore it.

yeah, because beating up drug dealers would make you any good. brilliant.

[xJon the conx]

drugs are drugs. legal or illegal, it makes people addicts. why not kick your underage loved ones/friends head in? they were the ones who wanted to get drinks and ruin their lives by that.
i don't really know how you think of "fuck it"' as in fuck it, i'"M gonna beat him the fuck up, or fuck it, it's not worth it.



great, how do you decide what is right or wrong, and who is just? also, do you really think it's the dealers that turn the neighbourhood into a slum? how can you say that any violence is justified(except for self defense)??


the right thing to do is not getting in useless fights or killed for no reason. there are authorities who's jobs are to handle these things, and people should help their work in any way. i think drug dealers are not the problem. prevention would be far more emphasized, what's the use of a drug dealer who can't sell drugs?
as for your earth crisis reference, you misunderstood the lyrics pretty badly


yeah, because beating up drug dealers would make you any good. brilliant.


again with the numbering, however unlike the argument im currently holding with the administrator in the "hardcore music sxe" thread, your points are pretty much entirely irrelevant. lets begin now.

1. drugs are not drugs legal or illegal, if you are attempting to tell me that there is no difference between the ability of marijuana and heroin to fuck up someones life, then you sir, are an idiot. also if you cant differentiate between kicking the shit out of some random bartender serving drinks to some 35 year old schmuck in a pub somewhere and some shitty drug dealer pushing smack onto 14 year old kids, well then again, way to be a dummy. also when i say "fuck it" i mean both of those things, depending on my feelings about the situation at the time.

2A. every single person, every single day decides what is wrong or right, with every single situation that they run across for their entire lives. you eat what looks good, you turn off the tv because you dont enjoy the program, you wear a coat because its cold. now along with these random situations that make up life sometimes bad things happen which are caused by people. depending on the individual involved in the situation and the severity of that situation you could respond any number of ways, violence is one of those options, to be used at the discretion of the individual, if youre super wrong and you get caught you'll be disciplined, if you are not wrong then you will not be as judged by other individuals in our society. i am a rational man with the freedom to make my own choices, thats who i am to decide in my opinion what is wrong or right.

2B. yes i do think that drug dealers have the ability to worsen a neighborhood to slum status, i live in a shitty neighborhood myself, and one of the things that makes it so shitty is the large amount of drug activity turning poor people to crime in an effort to support their various habits, also if drug dealers are so good for your neighborhood then after you convince me you can work on convincing the police, and every single religious and neighborhood association involved in every slum in america, since youre so wise maybe you should come over here and teach us where we're fucking up.

2C. violence is a perfectly acceptable form of punishment when no other option is left, this is simply a matter that most of us leave to the police because our current society collects your tax dollars to pay them so that you no longer have to be bothered. now i suppose you could argue that somone could take their local drug dealer out to lunch and say "hey mr. drug dealer i'd like you to stop, or else i'll do nothing" and see where that gets them. you could also call a cop to show up and lock them in a cage under the threat of (dum dum duuummm) violence. this offers the individual the convienience of leaving his dirty work to someone else and not risking his own physical well being or incarceration for vigilante justice, however in my opinion if somone decides its worth the risk then "fuck it" let him do what he wants to do, sometimes it feels good to man up and do your own work.

i have no sympathy for a sellout who deals drugs to jr. high school kids, fuck them.

3. alot of this was covered above, but i will take this opportunity to say that you pretty much just sound like a pussy to me, who wants to see violence done but dosent want to risk getting himself punched in the face over it. ALSO i never argued that prevention was not a better way of dealing with the problem overall via programs or what have you so please refrain from adding assumptions to my comments. and the only drug dealer that cant sell drugs to the public is one who is incarcerated, kids like you sit around and play dr. philosopher about things like youre such non violent liberated people, when in reality youre just paying policemen to bring the physicality of retribution to your enemies for you.

as for your earth crisis comment, not only do i know personally that they dont think i misunderstand their lyrics too badly, but just so you dont have to take it on faith, i'll let you explain to me the pussified, reactionary, absolutely non violent in all cases except self defense hidden message in the following lyrics.

"street by street, block by block, taking it all back. the youth immersed in poison turn the tide counter attack, violence against violence let the round ups begin, a firestorm to purify the bane that society drowns in, no mercy no exceptions a decleration of total war"

then some sweet lyrics about why drugs are bad and why its justified and then some lyrics justifying the idea of taking it upon yourself and not just entrusting it to the police, ::ahem::

"corrupt politicians, corrupt enforcement, drug lords and dealers, all must fall, the helpless are crying out, everyone except posi internet kids who are scared wusses are rising to the caaaall."

"a firestorm to purify"

i think its possible my friend that you are the one misunderstanding the lyrics, maybe you should listen to a less intense straight edge anthem, one you can measure up to with a little less effort.

[SgtD]

again with the numbering, however unlike the argument im currently holding with the administrator in the "hardcore music sxe" thread, your points are pretty much entirely irrelevant. lets begin now.

1. drugs are not drugs legal or illegal, if you are attempting to tell me that there is no difference between the ability of marijuana and heroin to fuck up someones life, then you sir, are an idiot. also if you cant differentiate between kicking the shit out of some random bartender serving drinks to some 35 year old schmuck in a pub somewhere and some shitty drug dealer pushing smack onto 14 year old kids, well then again, way to be a dummy. also when i say "fuck it" i mean both of those things, depending on my feelings about the situation at the time.
you totally missed my point.


2A. every single person, every single day decides what is wrong or right, with every single situation that they run across for their entire lives. you eat what looks good, you turn off the tv because you dont enjoy the program, you wear a coat because its cold. now along with these random situations that make up life sometimes bad things happen which are caused by people. depending on the individual involved in the situation and the severity of that situation you could respond any number of ways, violence is one of those options, to be used at the discretion of the individual, if youre super wrong and you get caught you'll be disciplined, if you are not wrong then you will not be as judged by other individuals in our society. i am a rational man with the freedom to make my own choices, thats who i am to decide in my opinion what is wrong or right.
so you can justify beating up anyone who doesn't share your views by your own choices then?


2B. yes i do think that drug dealers have the ability to worsen a neighborhood to slum status, i live in a shitty neighborhood myself, and one of the things that makes it so shitty is the large amount of drug activity turning poor people to crime in an effort to support their various habits, also if drug dealers are so good for your neighborhood then after you convince me you can work on convincing the police, and every single religious and neighbourhood association involved in every slum in america, since youre so wise maybe you should come over here and teach us where we're fucking up.
i never said they didn't.
if you're that much of a warrior, please tell me what do you do for making your neighbourhood better, other than posing as the toughest self righteous guy on the internet.



2C. violence is a perfectly acceptable form of punishment when no other option is left, this is simply a matter that most of us leave to the police because our current society collects your tax dollars to pay them so that you no longer have to be bothered. now i suppose you could argue that somone could take their local drug dealer out to lunch and say "hey mr. drug dealer i'd like you to stop, or else i'll do nothing" and see where that gets them. you could also call a cop to show up and lock them in a cage under the threat of (dum dum duuummm) violence. this offers the individual the convienience of leaving his dirty work to someone else and not risking his own physical well being or incarceration for vigilante justice, however in my opinion if somone decides its worth the risk then "fuck it" let him do what he wants to do, sometimes it feels good to man up and do your own work.
oh really? next time you encounter a drug dealer, please step up and be the tough guy you pretend to be here. i really do think that police should handle them, and you can call me a whatever you will, self righteousness isn't the solution, unless you want some gunshot wounds to brag about in front of your friends (if you survive of course). violence breeds violence. this is not a matter of manning up but if this is the thing you embrace so much, remember this when you see a drug dealer on the street and take the risk.



3. alot of this was covered above, but i will take this opportunity to say that you pretty much just sound like a pussy to me, who wants to see violence done but dosent want to risk getting himself punched in the face over it. ALSO i never argued that prevention was not a better way of dealing with the problem overall via programs or what have you so please refrain from adding assumptions to my comments. and the only drug dealer that cant sell drugs to the public is one who is incarcerated, kids like you sit around and play dr. philosopher about things like youre such non violent liberated people, when in reality youre just paying policemen to bring the physicality of retribution to your enemies for you.
yeah, i am a pussy because i don't emphasise senseless violence and don't want to get shot. i have troubles as it is, and i have encountered a whole lot of situations (too much actually) where i had to fight so who's making assumptions on who?
i's just like to add that i never asked for any help from the police, but i would if i had to, and thought necessary, it's their job not mine, and i couldn't get them into custody on my own anyway, and as you stated above, that is what should be done to drug dealers, and get them beaten up.



as for your earth crisis comment, not only do i know personally that they dont think i misunderstand their lyrics too badly, but just so you dont have to take it on faith, i'll let you explain to me the pussified, reactionary, absolutely non violent in all cases except self defense hidden message in the following lyrics.

"street by street, block by block, taking it all back. the youth immersed in poison turn the tide counter attack, violence against violence let the round ups begin, a firestorm to purify the bane that society drowns in, no mercy no exceptions a decleration of total war"

then some sweet lyrics about why drugs are bad and why its justified and then some lyrics justifying the idea of taking it upon yourself and not just entrusting it to the police, ::ahem::

"corrupt politicians, corrupt enforcement, drug lords and dealers, all must fall, the helpless are crying out, everyone except posi internet kids who are scared wusses are rising to the caaaall."

"a firestorm to purify"

i think its possible my friend that you are the one misunderstanding the lyrics, maybe you should listen to a less intense straight edge anthem, one you can measure up to with a little less effort.
so you think these lyrics should be taken literally? then go to "war" dude, you're smart enough for it.

[xJon the conx]

you totally missed my point.

so you can justify beating up anyone who doesn't share your views by your own choices then?

i never said they didn't.
if you're that much of a warrior, please tell me what do you do for making your neighbourhood better, other than posing as the toughest self righteous guy on the internet.



oh really? next time you encounter a drug dealer, please step up and be the tough guy you pretend to be here. i really do think that police should handle them, and you can call me a whatever you will, self righteousness isn't the solution, unless you want some gunshot wounds to brag about in front of your friends (if you survive of course). violence breeds violence. this is not a matter of manning up but if this is the thing you embrace so much, remember this when you see a drug dealer on the street and take the risk.



yeah, i am a pussy because i don't emphasise senseless violence and don't want to get shot. i have troubles as it is, and i have encountered a whole lot of situations (too much actually) where i had to fight so who's making assumptions on who?
i's just like to add that i never asked for any help from the police, but i would if i had to, and thought necessary, it's their job not mine, and i couldn't get them into custody on my own anyway, and as you stated above, that is what should be done to drug dealers, and get them beaten up.



so you think these lyrics should be taken literally? then go to "war" dude, you're smart enough for it.



::yawn::

1. i dont think that i did.

2. absolutely, my right as a human is to react as per my own will. now if i choose to make stupid decisions then i would have to reap the negative rewards of those decisions. you are acting like this is an argument about me, it is not, it is an argument about whether this kid who posted should fight a guy that he wants to fight, i say that if its his decision to do so then he should, and not listen to the advice of some wussy internet nerds on a messageboard.

3. well some of the things that i did to attempt to make my neighborhood a better place were, A. joined a straight edge brotherhood with an active recruitment program, B. i educated myself and started buying up all of the homes in my neighborhood (not so hard to do in the ghetto) so now no shit heads can live in them, C. i involve myself in the local music scene with bands and show promotion to spread a positive influence in the youth. D. i attempt to give kids a choice with the thought that "hey, i can say no to drugs and not be a total dork, these guys are cool and some of them are tough and they dont stab each other in the back over a nickel bag, maybe i wanna be like that and not the shitty thug life drug dealer down the street."

4. i own guns too my friend. but as far as my casting irrelevance on your comment, again let me reiterrate that it is of course not practical for a minority "like straight edge" to attempt to take out ever drug dealer in his or her city. you are attempting to take my response to one persons scenario and misinterpret it to pretend that im telling these kids that they should break up their local drug cartel. just because someone is a drug dealer dosent mean that theyre an invincible gun toting badass. im telling people to make a difference where they can and to show a little courage and intelligence in their battles, this does not only apply to straight edge but life in general, if your self appointed enemies are strong, then the corageous man would attempt to make himself stronger in an attempt to defeat that enemy.

5. no youre a pussy because youre scared. also your definition of sensless violence is also simply your own opinion, to you it is senseless to use violence for the protection of your loved ones or community unless someone is physically attacking you. i disagree. whats more you dont think the violence is "sensless" you just promote the idea of having the police do it in all instances irregardless of their effectivness on the matter, meaning that you only find that violence to be sensless when YOU have to do it.

6. well i know for a fact that they were written literally, people like you take things and attempt to reinterpret them to a way that makes you feel more comfortable, thats kinda weak but not really any of my business, but while its your right to disagree with a song, dont come trying to tell me that i dont understand something just because you only like playing the straight edge warrior in a room full of straight edge kids, singing anthems you dont really mean.

also in closing i dont really understand why youre trying to pin this "internet toughguy" label on me, i havent threatened physical violence to anyone on here and all of my tough guy remarks could pretty much be sized up to say "i think that violence is justified when youre protecting your community and loved ones, this applies to drug dealers if you believe they are doing this (just like it would apply to a child molester or gang member, or alien invasion from pluto) if thats the difference between being some kind of bonehead asshole or the new nonviolent post internet hardcore movement, then i guess im a bonehead.

[SgtD]

::yawn::
[QUOTE]
1. i dont think that i did.
you should try a bit harder, maybe it will get through to you.


2. absolutely, my right as a human is to react as per my own will. now if i choose to make stupid decisions then i would have to reap the negative rewards of those decisions. you are acting like this is an argument about me, it is not, it is an argument about whether this kid who posted should fight a guy that he wants to fight, i say that if its his decision to do so then he should, and not listen to the advice of some wussy internet nerds on a messageboard.
excuse me, but didn't you notice that this argument is about GENERAL thoughts on drug dealers and violence?


3. well some of the things that i did to attempt to make my neighborhood a better place were, A. joined a straight edge brotherhood with an active recruitment program, B. i educated myself and started buying up all of the homes in my neighborhood (not so hard to do in the ghetto) so now no shit heads can live in them, C. i involve myself in the local music scene with bands and show promotion to spread a positive influence in the youth. D. i attempt to give kids a choice with the thought that "hey, i can say no to drugs and not be a total dork, these guys are cool and some of them are tough and they dont stab each other in the back over a nickel bag, maybe i wanna be like that and not the shitty thug life drug dealer down the street."
what? no drug dealers beaten up? that would make the world a happier place you know!


4. i own guns too my friend. but as far as my casting irrelevance on your comment, again let me reiterrate that it is of course not practical for a minority "like straight edge" to attempt to take out ever drug dealer in his or her city. you are attempting to take my response to one persons scenario and misinterpret it to pretend that im telling these kids that they should break up their local drug cartel. just because someone is a drug dealer dosent mean that theyre an invincible gun toting badass. im telling people to make a difference where they can and to show a little courage and intelligence in their battles, this does not only apply to straight edge but life in general, if your self appointed enemies are strong, then the corageous man would attempt to make himself stronger in an attempt to defeat that enemy.

oooooooooh you got guns! you're so cool, can i be your friend?
again, i was talking in general, but in the kids case. how does beating up the dealers has anything to do with courage in the kids case?



5. no youre a pussy because youre scared. also your definition of sensless violence is also simply your own opinion, to you it is senseless to use violence for the protection of your loved ones or community unless someone is physically attacking you. i disagree. whats more you dont think the violence is "sensless" you just promote the idea of having the police do it in all instances irregardless of their effectivness on the matter, meaning that you only find that violence to be sensless when YOU have to do it.
ok, tell me why i am scared. it's just rational thinking. even you admitted it that drug dealers should be put in jail, so i don't see what makes me more of a pussy than you. i would defend my loved ones without a doubt, but that's a bit different deal than jumping drug dealers in my humble opinion. tell me otherwise.


6. well i know for a fact that they were written literally, people like you take things and attempt to reinterpret them to a way that makes you feel more comfortable, thats kinda weak but not really any of my business, but while its your right to disagree with a song, dont come trying to tell me that i dont understand something just because you only like playing the straight edge warrior in a room full of straight edge kids, singing anthems you dont really mean.
subtext. i could care less about earth crisis, i think they totally sucked.
again, who's making assumptions? i wouldn't sing these lyrics and not only because i dislike the band, but because it's not how i feel. the whole militant edge thing is all bullshit to me. i'd prefer bands that don't just pose hard, and really mean what they sing about, that's for sure.


also in closing i dont really understand why youre trying to pin this "internet toughguy" label on me, i havent threatened physical violence to anyone on here and all of my tough guy remarks could pretty much be sized up to say "i think that violence is justified when youre protecting your community and loved ones, this applies to drug dealers if you believe they are doing this (just like it would apply to a child molester or gang member, or alien invasion from pluto) if thats the difference between being some kind of bonehead asshole or the new nonviolent post internet hardcore movement, then i guess im a bonehead.
right tough guy.

[xJon the conx]

[QUOTE=xJon the conx]::yawn::

1. you should try a bit harder, maybe it will get through to you.


2. excuse me, but didn't you notice that this argument is about GENERAL thoughts on drug dealers and violence?


3. what? no drug dealers beaten up? that would make the world a happier place you know!


4. oooooooooh you got guns! you're so cool, can i be your friend?
again, i was talking in general, but in the kids case. how does beating up the dealers has anything to do with courage in the kids case?



5. ok, tell me why i am scared. it's just rational thinking. even you admitted it that drug dealers should be put in jail, so i don't see what makes me more of a pussy than you. i would defend my loved ones without a doubt, but that's a bit different deal than jumping drug dealers in my humble opinion. tell me otherwise.


6. subtext. i could care less about earth crisis, i think they totally sucked.
again, who's making assumptions? i wouldn't sing these lyrics and not only because i dislike the band, but because it's not how i feel. the whole militant edge thing is all bullshit to me. i'd prefer bands that don't just pose hard, and really mean what they sing about, that's for sure.


7. right tough guy.


i've noticed that you havent really bothered to intelligently refute any of the arguments i was making throughout this thread and have resorted to some form of elementary shittalk, you very typical of somone who has contracted the internet bravery bug.

1. if im not getting your point genius, why dont you can the petty shittalk and attempt to make it (i dont really think you have one)

2. actually dummy, this argument is based on an individual thought on drug dealers and violence, as i have stated in most of my previous posts, ONE person got on here asking for opinions about ONE situation and i responded with MY one opinion. since you chimed in with your oh so enlightened opinion you have attempted to make it appear that i told everyone everywhere that its both ok and intelligent to run around cracking open peoples skulls for attending bartending school, which i have not. perhaps you should take a break stroking your ego for awhile and work on your reading comprehension skills.

3. i smacked around a drug dealer in my neighborhood because he had a 14 year old kid (whos a good kid really) dealing behind my house, we havent had a problem with him since and the kid and a few of his friends are now drug free. i do not regret these actions.

4. i am cool. you may not be my friend. and my mention of gun ownership was to attempt to drive home the fact that your fear of physicality with your enemies can easily be countered. "oh no i could never stand up to a drug dealer, they have guns" so buy a gun sister and keep standing up for yourself. this kid beating up someone is not necessarily an expression of courage because the kid was pretty much willing to do it, he was not afraid (maybe just a tad reckless about his methods) that was more a counter argument to the comments that he was receiving which were primarily "you could get beat up, you could get shot, violence is always wrong" which unless youre a buddhist monk is typically the war cry of the cowardly. again i say if you have an enemy, then defy them, and if that enemy is too strong to defy, then you should strive to become stronger.

5. i've already alluded to why i get the impression that youre scared in my other paragraphs, i've been around awhile and dealt with alot of different people, i can tell youre scared and you use the nonviolence ruse to excuse yourself from ever having to take a physical stance on anything, thats the point i was making about your having no problem with letting the police or someone else do it for you, you even encourage it. hence you are not actually "nonviolent" you are just against having to risk yourself in a violent situation. i too as a member of a civilized society pay the police to provide my muscle for me as a typically law abiding citizen, but then again im not making the hypocritical statement that i dont believe violence is ever justified except in self defense.

also jumping drug dealers does not always protect your family and is not always the "right" thing to do (not that i really give a shit if someone does it and its wrong, but i wont actually argue that its necessarily right) however theres a big difference between typing on the internet that you "absolutely would protect your family blah blah blah" and doing it. you might deign to attack some guy who is beating the shit out of your mother in a parking lot somewhere, but if some shitty drug dealers move into your neighborhood and begin to institute a stranglehold on your community creating an enviroment which is dangerious to your family do i think you'll do something about it? no, i dont. i think you'd ignore it for as long as you possibly could until you knew you were overwhelmed and then you could use that as an excuse not to take action. then you would probably move to the suburbs to keep from becoming an utter victim. now thats not a bad way to keep your family out of harms way, but i dont consider it an act of heroism by any means.

i like he idea of someone who thumbs his nose at an individuals decision to own guns for protection and who is willing to fight physically against what he believes is wrong,coming from someone who wants to move somewhere safe and pay the police to..... own guns for protection (and supplication) and be willing to fight physically against the people you believe to be wrong. you call me an idiot and an toughguy, if you handed me a paycheck and gave me a cage to hustle people into then you'd call me officer.

6. so basically you tried to play up like you knew something that i didnt and then when i proved that youre a dork who dosent know what he's talking about you change the subject to how "you hate earth crisis anyway" you should look into law school, you have a natural slipperyness that i think they would find appealing.

7. yea, that is right. pussy-willow.

[SgtD]

[QUOTE=SgtD]


i've noticed that you havent really bothered to intelligently refute any of the arguments i was making throughout this thread and have resorted to some form of elementary shittalk, you very typical of somone who has contracted the internet bravery bug.

1. if im not getting your point genius, why dont you can the petty shittalk and attempt to make it (i dont really think you have one)

2. actually dummy, this argument is based on an individual thought on drug dealers and violence, as i have stated in most of my previous posts, ONE person got on here asking for opinions about ONE situation and i responded with MY one opinion. since you chimed in with your oh so enlightened opinion you have attempted to make it appear that i told everyone everywhere that its both ok and intelligent to run around cracking open peoples skulls for attending bartending school, which i have not. perhaps you should take a break stroking your ego for awhile and work on your reading comprehension skills.

3. i smacked around a drug dealer in my neighborhood because he had a 14 year old kid (whos a good kid really) dealing behind my house, we havent had a problem with him since and the kid and a few of his friends are now drug free. i do not regret these actions.

4. i am cool. you may not be my friend. and my mention of gun ownership was to attempt to drive home the fact that your fear of physicality with your enemies can easily be countered. "oh no i could never stand up to a drug dealer, they have guns" so buy a gun sister and keep standing up for yourself. this kid beating up someone is not necessarily an expression of courage because the kid was pretty much willing to do it, he was not afraid (maybe just a tad reckless about his methods) that was more a counter argument to the comments that he was receiving which were primarily "you could get beat up, you could get shot, violence is always wrong" which unless youre a buddhist monk is typically the war cry of the cowardly. again i say if you have an enemy, then defy them, and if that enemy is too strong to defy, then you should strive to become stronger.

5. i've already alluded to why i get the impression that youre scared in my other paragraphs, i've been around awhile and dealt with alot of different people, i can tell youre scared and you use the nonviolence ruse to excuse yourself from ever having to take a physical stance on anything, thats the point i was making about your having no problem with letting the police or someone else do it for you, you even encourage it. hence you are not actually "nonviolent" you are just against having to risk yourself in a violent situation. i too as a member of a civilized society pay the police to provide my muscle for me as a typically law abiding citizen, but then again im not making the hypocritical statement that i dont believe violence is ever justified except in self defense.

also jumping drug dealers does not always protect your family and is not always the "right" thing to do (not that i really give a shit if someone does it and its wrong, but i wont actually argue that its necessarily right) however theres a big difference between typing on the internet that you "absolutely would protect your family blah blah blah" and doing it. you might deign to attack some guy who is beating the shit out of your mother in a parking lot somewhere, but if some shitty drug dealers move into your neighborhood and begin to institute a stranglehold on your community creating an enviroment which is dangerious to your family do i think you'll do something about it? no, i dont. i think you'd ignore it for as long as you possibly could until you knew you were overwhelmed and then you could use that as an excuse not to take action. then you would probably move to the suburbs to keep from becoming an utter victim. now thats not a bad way to keep your family out of harms way, but i dont consider it an act of heroism by any means.

i like he idea of someone who thumbs his nose at an individuals decision to own guns for protection and who is willing to fight physically against what he believes is wrong,coming from someone who wants to move somewhere safe and pay the police to..... own guns for protection (and supplication) and be willing to fight physically against the people you believe to be wrong. you call me an idiot and an toughguy, if you handed me a paycheck and gave me a cage to hustle people into then you'd call me officer.

6. so basically you tried to play up like you knew something that i didnt and then when i proved that youre a dork who dosent know what he's talking about you change the subject to how "you hate earth crisis anyway" you should look into law school, you have a natural slipperyness that i think they would find appealing.

7. yea, that is right. pussy-willow.


i'm gonna get back on this later on monday, when i have time.

[xJon the conx]

[QUOTE=xJon the conx]


i'm gonna get back on this later on monday, when i have time.


well thanks for checking in, we were all getting worried.

[SgtD]

[QUOTE=SgtD]


well thanks for checking in, we were all getting worried.
i know you were!

[SgtD]

i've noticed that you havent really bothered to intelligently refute any of the arguments i was making throughout this thread and have resorted to some form of elementary shittalk, you very typical of somone who has contracted the internet bravery bug.
yeah, i am the shittalker, for sure.


1. if im not getting your point genius, why dont you can the petty shittalk and attempt to make it (i dont really think you have one)
i thought you were intelligent enough to understand. i guess i'm wrong.
"why not kick your underage loved ones/friends head in? they were the ones who wanted to get drinks and ruin their lives by that." i never got an answer for this one


2. actually dummy, this argument is based on an individual thought on drug dealers and violence,
that's just not true, i started the argument with one question totally not linked to the person, maybe you can see that too if you go back in the thread.


as i have stated in most of my previous posts, ONE person got on here asking for opinions about ONE situation and i responded with MY one opinion. since you chimed in with your oh so enlightened opinion you have attempted to make it appear that i told everyone everywhere that its both ok and intelligent to run around cracking open peoples skulls for attending bartending school, which i have not. perhaps you should take a break stroking your ego for awhile and work on your reading comprehension skills.
that would be logical from you. how can you justify serving drinks if you are so militant against drug dealers? bartenders are drugdealers too.


3. i smacked around a drug dealer in my neighborhood because he had a 14 year old kid (whos a good kid really) dealing behind my house, we havent had a problem with him since and the kid and a few of his friends are now drug free. i do not regret these actions.

you smacked him, and you didn't get any shit because of that. but he probably went to another site where he could sell his drugs. so what did this change? he's gonna sell that shit to someone. like you said, drugdealers should be in custody. but if you think so, why wouldn't you try and get them there?


4. i am cool. you may not be my friend. and my mention of gun ownership was to attempt to drive home the fact that your fear of physicality with your enemies can easily be countered. "oh no i could never stand up to a drug dealer, they have guns" so buy a gun sister and keep standing up for yourself. this kid beating up someone is not necessarily an expression of courage because the kid was pretty much willing to do it, he was not afraid (maybe just a tad reckless about his methods) that was more a counter argument to the comments that he was receiving which were primarily "you could get beat up, you could get shot, violence is always wrong" which unless youre a buddhist monk is typically the war cry of the cowardly. again i say if you have an enemy, then defy them, and if that enemy is too strong to defy, then you should strive to become stronger.
owning guns are stupid. how is having a gun equals to standing up for one's self? you gotta be kidding me. having a gun is the most coward thing to do.
i have better things ahead of me than getting shot for no obvious reason. i won't start a fight because it wouldn't make any difference with the drug dealer. sone night a year ago, some guy tried to sell me a joint. i haven't even thought about fighting him. i could easily beat him up, but what would that's use be?!
i have friends who are using marijuana, but i don't see the drug dealers as the black sheep. it's their choice that they tried it and liked it. sure, they are controlled by a plant, but i can't stop them doing it till they don't want to. should i beat the guy up who shared his joint with them for the first time when they tried it? or just kill them all simply?


5. i've already alluded to why i get the impression that youre scared in my other paragraphs, i've been around awhile and dealt with alot of different people, i can tell youre scared and you use the nonviolence ruse to excuse yourself from ever having to take a physical stance on anything, thats the point i was making about your having no problem with letting the police or someone else do it for you, you even encourage it. hence you are not actually "nonviolent" you are just against having to risk yourself in a violent situation. i too as a member of a civilized society pay the police to provide my muscle for me as a typically law abiding citizen, but then again im not making the hypocritical statement that i dont believe violence is ever justified except in self defense.
you don't know me, and have no idea what i'm about, so you having said you can tell i'm scared based on you dealt with people is bullshit.
oh, so it makes me a coward that i have no problem with (or i encourage) the police dealing with drug dealers? that's some hilarious shit right there.
tell me why is it sooooo great to beat up drug dealers. you admited it that tehy should be in the can, so they can't sell their stuff. i see a contradiction there. in what cases is it ok to beat up the drug dealer? when he's smaller than you or he doesn't have a gun?


also jumping drug dealers does not always protect your family and is not always the "right" thing to do (not that i really give a shit if someone does it and its wrong, but i wont actually argue that its necessarily right) however theres a big difference between typing on the internet that you "absolutely would protect your family blah blah blah" and doing it. you might deign to attack some guy who is beating the shit out of your mother in a parking lot somewhere, but if some shitty drug dealers move into your neighborhood and begin to institute a stranglehold on your community creating an enviroment which is dangerious to your family do i think you'll do something about it? no, i dont. i think you'd ignore it for as long as you possibly could until you knew you were overwhelmed and then you could use that as an excuse not to take action. then you would probably move to the suburbs to keep from becoming an utter victim. now thats not a bad way to keep your family out of harms way, but i dont consider it an act of heroism by any means.
the suburbs sound great to me!

i like he idea of someone who thumbs his nose at an individuals decision to own guns for protection and who is willing to fight physically against what he believes is wrong,coming from someone who wants to move somewhere safe and pay the police to..... own guns for protection (and supplication) and be willing to fight physically against the people you believe to be wrong. you call me an idiot and an toughguy, if you handed me a paycheck and gave me a cage to hustle people into then you'd call me officer.
wow you're and idiot, you're totally like an officer, no doubt about that! you fight for what you think is wrong and do it on your own like Rambo. difference between you and the armed forces is that they don't handle things self righteously, and their goal is not to beat up the dealer, but to put him away so he couldn't continue selling the drugs.


6. so basically you tried to play up like you knew something that i didnt and then when i proved that youre a dork who dosent know what he's talking about you change the subject to how "you hate earth crisis anyway" you should look into law school, you have a natural slipperyness that i think they would find appealing.
for the record, i do study a lot of law. as for natural slipperyness, you just skipped the most crucial word of my reply which was. SUBTEXT. maybe you do know what it means, and how it is used in literature.


7. yea, that is right. pussy-willow.
i like it that you call me names, i really do. too bad the insults don't fit me at all.

[xJon the conx]

jesus this is gonna go on forever.

im in a pretty zen mood this morning because my girlfriend just made me some pretty delicious eggs, so im going to try to argue with you without getting out of line. i dont want my desire to dump insults on you to cloud the points of my argument.

now alot of your post above was just pretty much insulting, which is logical given that we've been insulting each other for some time now, but i will pick out and address the couple of questions that you raised.

i'll address your first two together

"why not kick your underage loved ones/friends head in? they were the ones who wanted to get drinks and ruin their lives by that." i never got an answer for this one



that would be logical from you. how can you justify serving drinks if you are so militant against drug dealers? bartenders are drugdealers too.

again like i said youre trying to paint me out to be some militant thug. and again you're convincing me that youre a complete idiot. the main reason not to kick in a loved ones head is obviously, because you love them. however i'll one up the point you were trying to make and say that its not ok to beat up some random person that you dont love just becase they are a junkie. junkies are people who have for all intents and purposes contracted a self destructive disease and who are in need of help (not that individual junkies/situations havent been in need of violence, but overall.) now if i want to stop the kids in my neighborhood from becoming junkies then it becomes necessary to strike as close to the root of the problem as i can, this would include, education, propaganda, and the removal of drug dealers and drug culture propaganda. violence against the victims of a situation like drugs serves no purpose.

Also i will again stress that the fact that you are arguing a similarity between a bartender and a meth dealer implies to me that you have no actual idea what in the hell youre talking about. I am against alcohol and find it detrimental to our society, but a bartender himself is simply providing a service. lets look at it this way: straight edge is a propaganda movement via, clothing, bands, brotherhood,violence. now,

A bartender is providing a service to the public via supply and demand, he works inside a place (at least in america) where underage kids may not enter, he is not involved in the marketing of that product persay. straight edge kids could beat up a bartender in an attempt to prove their point, but it does not strike anywhere close to the heart of the problem and is thus sensless violence, however,

An alcohol company produces alcohol, it is their job to market alcohol and in many cases they market their product to the youth culture using their "alcohol makes you cool, dont be a nerd, get the girls ect." propaganda for which the tobacco industry was once famous. Now straight edge cannot physically fight industry, so they engage in a progagandic campaign against it to the best of their ability.

now a drug dealer is a different story, the laws that protect the alcohol industry do not apply to a drug dealer. for this reason drug dealers are in the practice of defending themselves from both policemen and other drug dealers, hence while a neighborhood full of bartenders may be a pleasant and safe place to live (though a neighborhood of bars typically is not) a neighborhood full of meth dealers is not. they are stereotypically some of the shittiest people in our society. also as a target from a straight edge viewpoint they are attractive as they serve the double purpose of being both the supplier and the marketer of their product (hence the term "pusher") so the goal of pushing a drug dealer out of your neighborhood is more appleaing both because the severity of the drug dealer is worse than that of the bartender, you can chase him away in many cases with minimal police retribution, and you are striking closer to the root of your problem because you are taking away both the supplier of the harmful product, as well as the local marketer of said product.

and please dont attempt to argue the "they'll find a way to get travel and get the drugs anyway ect." argument, because while that is true, it is to a much lesser degree than in a community where drug dealers ect. have free reign to market to children. (i.e. a ghetto with many drug dealers, and a suburb with very few)

also the fact that youre even telling me stories about "your friends who smoke weed and the guy who sells it to them and the bartender down the street" proves to me that youre completely missing the point or severity of the situation that im talking about, which is coke, meth, and heroin dealers in americas neighborhoods.


you smacked him, and you didn't get any shit because of that. but he probably went to another site where he could sell his drugs. so what did this change? he's gonna sell that shit to someone. like you said, drugdealers should be in custody. but if you think so, why wouldn't you try and get them there?

let him keep moving on to other sites until he ends up in your neighborhood, then you can deal with him. for my part im glad he's out of mine. what did it change? one less drug dealer in my neighborhood and two new kids who are no longer interested in that lifestyle. As per getting them in custody, thats great but the police rolling through your neighborhood picking out drug dealers here and there simply isnt enough to handle the problem. the best way to get something out of a neighborhood, is when the neighborhood wont allow it there, which is a mentality that im slowly trying to cultivate in mine. if more people in a neighborhood that can stand up to drug dealers do , then drug dealers there will cease to be, but people dont stand up when theyre scared, hence the power structure needs to change, and that may damn well constitute the use of violence.


owning guns are stupid. how is having a gun equals to standing up for one's self? you gotta be kidding me. having a gun is the most coward thing to do.
i have better things ahead of me than getting shot for no obvious reason. i won't start a fight because it wouldn't make any difference with the drug dealer. sone night a year ago, some guy tried to sell me a joint. i haven't even thought about fighting him. i could easily beat him up, but what would that's use be?!
i have friends who are using marijuana, but i don't see the drug dealers as the black sheep. it's their choice that they tried it and liked it. sure, they are controlled by a plant, but i can't stop them doing it till they don't want to. should i beat the guy up who shared his joint with them for the first time when they tried it? or just kill them all simply?


this is the dumbest thing i've ever read. owning a gun is not stupid, and it could (and currently is) being argued that you technically do own guns, since you are all for the idea of calling the police to use guns for you. it is a moot point.

as per "sticking up for yourself" owning a gun is only sticking up for yourself in relation to the point i made earlier in the thread that you are apparently attempting to refute, that being " if you fear your enemy for owning a gun, then buy a gun and stop fearing your enemy" which is standing up for yourself.

your argument that "starting a fight wont make any difference to a drug dealer" is entirely false and born of cowardice and lazyness. i can assure you that the threat of violence for right or wrong makes a difference to anyone.

and in regards to your harrowing story of how a guy offered to sell you a joint once. that is really not the same thing as someone who has a 14 year old kid selling meth for him, and thereby would not constitute the same response.


the suburbs sound great to me!

thats fine, but dont attempt to tell me how to deal with the problems of an economically indentured community that you dont live in or deal with, live in the suburbs and hire more cops to come to my neighborhood and arrest 14 year old kids so that they can go to jail and learn to be dangerous.




wow you're and idiot, you're totally like an officer, no doubt about that! you fight for what you think is wrong and do it on your own like Rambo. difference between you and the armed forces is that they don't handle things self righteously, and their goal is not to beat up the dealer, but to put him away so he couldn't continue selling the drugs.

the goal is to remove drug dealers, they can do this under threat of incarceration, or police violence. i dont have the ability to incarcerate so i try and do what i can to make drug dealers feel unwelcome in my neighborhood, not much yet but at least im trying something, i would wager that you are not.


i like it that you call me names

im glad, because about the only thing i wont call you, is straight edge.

[SgtD]

again like i said youre trying to paint me out to be some militant thug.
i never said you were a militant thug, it's you who thinks that of yourself. based on your posts, you would be flattered if you could be one for sure, at least you'd like to pose as one.


the main reason not to kick in a loved ones head is obviously, because you love them. however i'll one up the point you were trying to make and say that its not ok to beat up some random person that you dont love just becase they are a junkie.
i was not trying to make and say it's not ok. i was just trying to get to know why you only think it's the drug dealers fault that kids do drugs.




straight edge is a propaganda movement via, clothing, bands, brotherhood,violence.
i find it pretty amusing that you have the need to link violence and straight edge.


Also i will again stress that the fact that you are arguing a similarity between a bartender and a meth dealer implies to me that you have no actual idea what in the hell youre talking about. I am against alcohol and find it detrimental to our society, but a bartender himself is simply providing a service.
yeah, simply giving away a substance that is a drug, and responsible for a lot of bad things.


A bartender is providing a service to the public via supply and demand,
just like a drug dealer(which he is actually)


he works inside a place (at least in america) where underage kids may not enter, he is not involved in the marketing of that product persay.
that's not entirely true at all.


straight edge kids could beat up a bartender in an attempt to prove their point but it does not strike anywhere close to the heart of the problem and is thus sensless violence
what point would that prove?! and because it doesn't strike close to the heart of the problem it's senseless violence? how come? explain this to me please.


An alcohol company produces alcohol, it is their job to market alcohol and in many cases they market their product to the youth culture using their "alcohol makes you cool, dont be a nerd, get the girls ect." propaganda for which the tobacco industry was once famous. Now straight edge cannot physically fight industry, so they engage in a progagandic campaign against it to the best of their ability.
what if the now illegal drugs would be legal, and the drug industry was legitimate, just like the alcohol companies now?
All drugs have the propaganda like that. Why not beat up people with marijuana leaf bracelets, shirts etc? Or that's not close enough to the roots?


now a drug dealer is a different story, the laws that protect the alcohol industry do not apply to a drug dealer. for this reason drug dealers are in the practice of defending themselves from both policemen and other drug dealers, hence while a neighborhood full of bartenders may be a pleasant and safe place to live (though a neighborhood of bars typically is not) a neighborhood full of meth dealers is not. they are stereotypically some of the shittiest people in our society. also as a target from a straight edge viewpoint they are attractive as they serve the double purpose of being both the supplier and the marketer of their product (hence the term "pusher") so the goal of pushing a drug dealer out of your neighborhood is more appleaing both because the severity of the drug dealer is worse than that of the bartender, you can chase him away in many cases with minimal police retribution, and you are striking closer to the root of your problem because you are taking away both the supplier of the harmful product, as well as the local marketer of said product.
Bartenders are socially accepted drugdealers. People don't even think about them lke that. What i don't get is how are you ok with them, if you act so violently against drugdealers.
Plus I don't know why you connect straight edge with violent intervention all the time.


also the fact that youre even telling me stories about "your friends who smoke weed and the guy who sells it to them and the bartender down the street" proves to me that youre completely missing the point or severity of the situation that im talking about, which is coke, meth, and heroin dealers in americas neighborhoods.
not at all. you try to lower me with every post of yours, -only making yourself look like an ass by that- and take more attention to that than thinking through what i am saying.
A drug dealer is a drug dealer right? First comes weed, then come the chemical drugs in most cases. It's not too common that people start with coke meth or heroin. So marijuana dealers are cool and won't get their face punched in by you? Weed is ok with you?



let him keep moving on to other sites until he ends up in your neighborhood, then you can deal with him. for my part im glad he's out of mine. what did it change? one less drug dealer in my neighborhood and two new kids who are no longer interested in that lifestyle.
so you only care about kids in your neighbourhood? You don't care about people living in other regions? What do you think drug dealers will do when they get another site? Selling drugs to other people of course, so only the buyers changed.



As per getting them in custody, thats great but the police rolling through your neighborhood picking out drug dealers here and there simply isnt enough to handle the problem.the best way to get something out of a neighborhood, is when the neighborhood wont allow it there, which is a mentality that im slowly trying to cultivate in mine.
yeah of course not. Letting them go to another place where they can start all over their shit again is enough!


if more people in a neighborhood that can stand up to drug dealers do , then drug dealers there will cease to be, but people dont stand up when theyre scared, hence the power structure needs to change, and that may damn well constitute the use of violence.
FIRESTORM TO PURIFY!!!!!!!!!!



this is the dumbest thing i've ever read. owning a gun is not stupid, and it could (and currently is) being argued that you technically do own guns, since you are all for the idea of calling the police to use guns for you. it is a moot point.
as per "sticking up for yourself" owning a gun is only sticking up for yourself in relation to the point i made earlier in the thread that you are apparently attempting to refute, that being " if you fear your enemy for owning a gun, then buy a gun and stop fearing your enemy" which is standing up for yourself.
I own guns technically because cops have them.Right.
Why do you think that's standing up for yourself? This is complete bullshit.


your argument that "starting a fight wont make any difference to a drug dealer" is entirely false and born of cowardice and lazyness.
i'M glad you know that much about me.

i can assure you that the threat of violence for right or wrong makes a difference to anyone.
what difference in this case?


and in regards to your harrowing story of how a guy offered to sell you a joint once. that is really not the same thing as someone who has a 14 year old kid selling meth for him, and thereby would not constitute the same response.
Why not? It's the first person who introduced them to drugs. They are responsible for them chosing to use marijuana.
ps. i was never offered a joint in my life, read my comments attentively



thats fine, but dont attempt to tell me how to deal with the problems of an economically indentured community that you dont live in or deal with, live in the suburbs and hire more cops to come to my neighborhood and arrest 14 year old kids so that they can go to jail and learn to be dangerous.
sarcasm. (if you haven't noticed it, maybe you don't know the word either: I don't live in the suburbs, i was just being cynical.)





the goal is to remove drug dealers, they can do this under threat of incarceration, or police violence. i dont have the ability to incarcerate so i try and do what i can to make drug dealers feel unwelcome in my neighborhood, not much yet but at least im trying something, i would wager that you are not.
the question is: why don't you have the ability to incarcerate? You just let them wander about and get new markets. That's not much of a change is it? The goal isn't too accurate i guess.




im glad, because about the only thing i wont call you, is straight edge.
i'm not in your straight edge brotherhood (as you refer to your friends – which makes me smile everytime i think about it) that's for sure. it's quite hilarious that you have this fantasy world built up in your head about sxe.

[stepinsideissue]

Then Jon you can say all of us here aren't edge because we don't follow your fucked up and wrong militant views on straight edge. But the thing is you can say all you want till you face is red and your balls blue. Don't make it true my friend. You keep bringing up Earth Crisis lyrics and having recieved shit for being a hugh fan of theirs let me say this which as been mentioned before a thousand times. ONE BAND does not make up the scene or movement or subculture.