Caffine?

[kitcat]

So ive been looking around and i see that from what i read it seems like if your straight edge you dont drink anything with caffine? why is that. and if i do drink caffine does that mean i can not be straight edge? becasue to tell you all the truth i love energy drinks and i now there full of caffine so i was just wundering.

[xsecx]

So ive been looking around and i see that from what i read it seems like if your straight edge you dont drink anything with caffine? why is that. and if i do drink caffine does that mean i can not be straight edge? becasue to tell you all the truth i love energy drinks and i now there full of caffine so i was just wundering.

Caffeine is probably the most accepted and used drug in the world. By saying you're straight edge it means you're against the recreational use of drugs and energy drinks and caffeine are definitely recreational.

[Tahir]

Caffeine is probably the most accepted and used drug in the world. By saying you're straight edge it means you're against the recreational use of drugs and energy drinks and caffeine are definitely recreational.

HAHAHAHAHA... ARE YOU SERIOUS???? you are aweSomE

[SgtD]

HAHAHAHAHA... ARE YOU SERIOUS???? you are aweSomE
he is, and you're a moron.

[Tahir]

he is, and you're a moron.

wow, i'm the moron for comparing shooting heroin to drinking redbulls??? and you bought into that garbage???

[D1988]

wow, i'm the moron for comparing shooting heroin to drinking redbulls??? and you bought into that garbage???

do you actually know what straight edge is all about?

I also think you are a moron for dismissing something someone has said without even having a clue what your talking about.

Shoot up on heroin, you will be on a high, its a mind altering drug. Drink a red bull or 2, you will be on a high, its a mind altering drug.

Explain your argument further because the majority of people on this forum ARE going to prove you completely and utterly wrong, good luck.

[SgtD]

wow, i'm the moron for comparing shooting heroin to drinking redbulls??? and you bought into that garbage???
caffeine is a drug. this is a fact, no matter what you say, this is how it is, smart ass

[Glen]

I have to admit that the use of caffeine as a "recreational drug" seems to be an odd stance. I wouldn't begrudge anyone saying they were straightedge if they had the odd cup of coffee. Surely in moderation this is deemed as acceptable to the majority of the straightedge community?

[D1988]

I have to admit that the use of caffeine as a "recreational drug" seems to be an odd stance.

How does this seem odd? Caffeine is as much o a drug as anything else in my eyes.

Using caffeine for "recreational use", meaning people deliberately use allot of it to get on a high? But your saying that a cup of coffee every now and again shouldn't mean anything, does this mean we can all have one or two beers every now and again aswell? or have a cigarette once a week?

Its the same thing

[straightXed]

I have to admit that the use of caffeine as a "recreational drug" seems to be an odd stance. I wouldn't begrudge anyone saying they were straightedge if they had the odd cup of coffee. Surely in moderation this is deemed as acceptable to the majority of the straightedge community?

would moderate use of any other drug be acceptable? If so which ones? If not why is caffeine acceptable.

[Tahir]

[QUOTE=D1988]do you actually know what straight edge is all about?

well i was X'in up and pointing my finger to sing alongs when you were in diapers little kid. i know what straightedge is, i know where it came from and i know what it's about.


I also think you are a moron for dismissing something someone has said without even having a clue what your talking about.

do you eat meat? do you consume artificial colors and flavors? sugar? these are all mind and body altering ingredients.
i haven't consumed un-natural caffine in over 14 years. how long have you abstained from it? or do you even abstain at all?
but consuming caffine doesn't "make or break" someones ability to be straightedge.
why don't you call Choke from Slapshot and tell him he can't be edge because he drinks cokes. in fact why don't you call litterally EVERY band that made straightedge what it is today and tell them.

in fact your beloved minor threat, has pictures of them sitting around drinking COKES.


Shoot up on heroin, you will be on a high, its a mind altering drug. Drink a red bull or 2, you will be on a high, its a mind altering drug.

how many people have died as a result of caffine? maybe you should learn a little about what you are talking about.


Explain your argument further because the majority of people on this forum ARE going to prove you completely and utterly wrong, good luck.

well go ahead and prove me completely and utterly wrong. this should be interesting.

[Tahir]

caffeine is a drug. this is a fact, no matter what you say, this is how it is, smart ass


okay, do you eat bananas? the majority of fruits have caffine. do you eat chocolate?
and if you can't see the difference between heroin and caffine then you are either stupid or have never known anybody that has died from REAL drugs. and to be honest i don't believe you are stupid.

do you eat animals that are pumped full of STEROIDS? these are REAL drugs, not caffine. do you eat foods that have artificial ingredients? these have been known to result in "ADD" and "ADHD" in children if you believe that sort of thing, health problems and hyperactivity as a result of sugar and artificial ingredients is just as much of a drug as caffine then. so why don't you abstain from that?
because abstaining from caffine is the easy part.
don't pick and choose which "drugs" you are going to stay away from if you are sincere.

[xsecx]

okay, do you eat bananas? the majority of fruits have caffine. do you eat chocolate?
and if you can't see the difference between heroin and caffine then you are either stupid or have never known anybody that has died from REAL drugs. and to be honest i don't believe you are stupid.

No one has talked about comparing heroin to caffeine but you though. So you're only worried about REAL drugs now? You're against weed, but it's pretty harmless. Where did you get that the majority of fruits have caffeine?
Things have a trace amount of substances, but I don't think anyone here is talking about avoiding things where it's impossible to affect you. Unless you're trying to say that eating a chocolate bar and drinking a red bull are the same thing, which is possible, you are pretty dumb.



do you eat animals that are pumped full of STEROIDS? these are REAL drugs, not caffine. do you eat foods that have artificial ingredients? these have been known to result in "ADD" and "ADHD" in children if you believe that sort of thing, health problems and hyperactivity as a result of sugar and artificial ingredients is just as much of a drug as caffine then. so why don't you abstain from that?
because abstaining from caffine is the easy part.
don't pick and choose which "drugs" you are going to stay away from if you are sincere.

So how are any of these drugs used recreationally? You're trying to enforce your world view against us "single issue" kids and it just doesn't work. What other drugs are ok then? You're implying you're sincere so you stay away from the majority of fruit?

[kitcat]

i never realized caffine was considered a recreational drug... this is why i havent considered myself sxe yet becdause im still learning.
i still dont get it though becasue all caffine does is make you energetic and alert basically and they make energy drinks with all vitamins and no caffine that does the same thing.as a regular energy drink

[xsecx]

i never realized caffine was considered a recreational drug... this is why i havent considered myself sxe yet becdause im still learning.
i still dont get it though becasue all caffine does is make you energetic and alert basically and they make energy drinks with all vitamins and no caffine that does the same thing.as a regular energy drink

the energy comes from a cardiac stimulant that is addictive. The effects on the mind and body are very similar between caffeine and cocaine. The energy from energy drinks almost always comes from caffeine or a caffeine derivative like guarana or mate, if not it's from some other form of stimulant. This is a decent resource to read more about caffeine. http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/caffeine/caffeine_effects.shtml

[Glen]

I still think that this reeks. Does it come down to what we conciously put in our body? Ie: If we know there's caffeine in coffee we abstain from it as we know it is a stimulant, but we can eat a Big Mac (even though they're frickin' gross, I merely use it as an example) even though we don't know what the cow was injected with and what hormones it was subjected to and what additional ingredients are used in the patty to actually make us crave more food?

Chemical reactions happen in our body through the digestion and absorption of food and drink in different ways for different people. I'm not saying that caffeine isn't one of the more pronounced natural stimulants, but, and I merely ask this as a question and as someone who clearly isn't sXe, is caffeine a "drug", or a stimulant? And what does the sXe massive regard as the unbreakable code for "drug" here?

[kitcat]

the energy comes from a cardiac stimulant that is addictive. The effects on the mind and body are very similar between caffeine and cocaine. The energy from energy drinks almost always comes from caffeine or a caffeine derivative like guarana or mate, if not it's from some other form of stimulant. This is a decent resource to read more about caffeine. http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/caffeine/caffeine_effects.shtml


alright thanks i will definatley read.
And thanks again for being so helpfulll.

[D1988]

well i was X'in up and pointing my finger to sing alongs when you were in diapers little kid. i know what straightedge is, i know where it came from and i know what it's about.

I never asked what you were doing when I was in diapers whats that got to do with anything?

little kid? a little kid is maybe 3-8 years old, I am 18, I am a little kid?


how long have you abstained from it? or do you even abstain at all?

Yes I do abstain from it and I have done so for a year, and because you have abstained for "14 years" is this making you more straight edge than me, does this make you more knowledgable to straight edge than me? I think not


how many people have died as a result of caffine? maybe you should learn a little about what you are talking about.

This is by far the stupidest thing you have said. Why don't YOU go research the affects of caffiene, it does kill and it has killed. SO your the one who should bea learnign what they are talking about. What your saying is basically, if not alot of people die from using a certain drug then its ok for us sxe people to use it then. The death rate of cannabis isn't exactly topping the charts like heroin and shit so is it ok to smoke weed because it doesn't kill that many people?


well go ahead and prove me completely and utterly wrong. this should be interesting.

In my eyes you basically have been, I have done my best to try and get across what I think with my posts but I mustn't be straight edge enough, I have only been edge for a year so I have no right in telling you what I think. Dusty and straightxed, listen to those guys, they know what they are talking about more than anyone on here.

[xsecx]

I still think that this reeks. Does it come down to what we conciously put in our body? Ie: If we know there's caffeine in coffee we abstain from it as we know it is a stimulant, but we can eat a Big Mac (even though they're frickin' gross, I merely use it as an example) even though we don't know what the cow was injected with and what hormones it was subjected to and what additional ingredients are used in the patty to actually make us crave more food?

Chemical reactions happen in our body through the digestion and absorption of food and drink in different ways for different people. I'm not saying that caffeine isn't one of the more pronounced natural stimulants, but, and I merely ask this as a question and as someone who clearly isn't sXe, is caffeine a "drug", or a stimulant? And what does the sXe massive regard as the unbreakable code for "drug" here?

The point of straight edge is to avoid recreational drugs. The food in mcdonalds being healthy or good for you is way out of the scope of what people who are straight edge agree that it's about.

caffeine is a drug that is a stimulant. Drugs are typically classed as either stimulants (meth, coke, caffeine, ephedrine, nicotine, MDMA) depressants (alcohol, ketamine, PCP, marijuana, opium) hallucinogens (LSD,Muscimol) and antipsychotics (Phenothiazines and Butyrophenones). Recreational drug use is pretty clear cut, if you are using any drug for something other than medical reasons then it's being used recreationally.

[Glen]

Gotcha.

[SgtD]

okay, do you eat bananas? the majority of fruits have caffine. do you eat chocolate?
and if you can't see the difference between heroin and caffine then you are either stupid or have never known anybody that has died from REAL drugs. and to be honest i don't believe you are stupid.

do you eat animals that are pumped full of STEROIDS? these are REAL drugs, not caffine. do you eat foods that have artificial ingredients? these have been known to result in "ADD" and "ADHD" in children if you believe that sort of thing, health problems and hyperactivity as a result of sugar and artificial ingredients is just as much of a drug as caffine then. so why don't you abstain from that?
because abstaining from caffine is the easy part.
don't pick and choose which "drugs" you are going to stay away from if you are sincere.
bananas and chocolate have an amount of caffeine in them that you would have to eat a ton of them to take effect on you. fruits also contain alcohol, you know.
yeah, because eating meat is like eating the steroids the pig had. how much drug is in meat then? how much do i need to eat to get "high"?
sugar is not a drug. please, prove me otherwise.
and just a heads up: sxe has never been about health, it's about abstaining from recreational drug usage.

[D1988]

The point of straight edge is to avoid recreational drugs. The food in mcdonalds being healthy or good for you is way out of the scope of what people who are straight edge agree that it's about.

caffeine is a drug that is a stimulant. Drugs are typically classed as either stimulants (meth, coke, caffeine, ephedrine, nicotine, MDMA) depressants (alcohol, ketamine, PCP, marijuana, opium) hallucinogens (LSD,Muscimol) and antipsychotics (Phenothiazines and Butyrophenones). Recreational drug use is pretty clear cut, if you are using any drug for something other than medical reasons then it's being used recreationally.


And there we have it!

Dusty speaks the TRUTH

[Tahir]

[QUOTE=SgtD]bananas and chocolate have an amount of caffeine in them that you would have to eat a ton of them to take effect on you. fruits also contain alcohol, you know.

oh so now you are saying that you can do drugs as long as it doesn't affect you? some people can drink alot of alcohol before it takes effect, same with marijuana. so can someone be straightedge if they only drink a little alcohol/smoke a little weed and stop before they get fucked up? no, but by your arguments against only SOME caffeine they can since caffeine apparantly is a drug and can make or break somebodies "edge".

i'm just saying, if you are going to say that "you can't be straightedge if you consume caffeine" then you should abstain from ALL caffeine. not just most. that's like drinking "near beer" or "wine coolers" because it's supposedly impossible to get "drunk" from unless you drink alot. or smoking as long as you don't "Inhale"
i see alot of talk about "green teas" and "caffeine free" teas, but these still have Caffeine in them. they are only considered "decaffinated" because MOST of the caffeine has been removed.

don't get it twisted, i believe that caffeine is addictive and unhealthy. i agree that straightedge kids should abstain from it, but i don't agree that it makes or breaks somebodies "edge" it just doesn't make much sense to me to abstain from "illegal drugs" but not abstain from artificial or over-caffinated foods/drinks which can have alot of the same effects.



yeah, because eating meat is like eating the steroids the pig had.

it's pretty simple really. yes. if a pig was pumped full of steroids, and you eat the pig, you are eating the steroids. where do the steroids go after they are pumped into the pig? they don't just dissapear.


how much drug is in meat then? how much do i need to eat to get "high"?

most people don't get high from smoking a cigarette either, so why is getting high a requirement to decide whether or not you should abstain from other drugs?
most people don't get drunk off of a little alcohol either.

in fact alot of people get "high" from adrenaline, are straightedge people supposed to abstain from things that give them an "adrenaline high?"


sugar is not a drug. please, prove me otherwise.

if caffeine is a drug, so is sugar. i'm not going to try and "prove" anything. but have you ever experienced a “sugar rush” if you have then you know that it affects the consciousness and sugar stimulates the same parts of the brain as cocaine. And certainly sugar can be habit-forming, sugar is unhealthy, can cause serious health risks if consumed in large quantities or over long periods of time, It's a chemical substance and can alter the state of mind... so Yes, sugar is a drug.


and just a heads up: sxe has never been about health, it's about abstaining from recreational drug usage.

are you sure it's ONLY about abstaining from "recreational drug use?"
would you drink a tea made from cannibus for medicinal use?
would you, eat cannibus cookies if you had cancer AIDS or other diseases that Cannibus has been prescribed for?
i'm guessing not, so that isn't exactly "recreational drug usage" is it.
and how does drinking a coke count as "recreational drug usage?"

and that's cool, if for YOU straightedge is only abstaining from drugs and has nothing to do with health. but not everybody agrees with this. i'm not saying you are "wrong" or i am "right" that's what is so awesome about "straightedge" not everybody has the same reasons for being straightedge.
but i gotta ask, why do you abstain from drugs if your health is not a factor?
and what is Crucial Youth gonna do when they find out what you said about health?

[Tahir]

[QUOTE=D1988]I never asked what you were doing when I was in diapers whats that got to do with anything?

fair enough


little kid? a little kid is maybe 3-8 years old, I am 18, I am a little kid?

fair enough, i'm just old.




Yes I do abstain from it and I have done so for a year, and because you have abstained for "14 years" is this making you more straight edge than me, does this make you more knowledgable to straight edge than me? I think not

good for you, no it doesn't, and not necessarily.... i agree.




This is by far the stupidest thing you have said. Why don't YOU go research the affects of caffiene, it does kill and it has killed. SO your the one who should bea learnign what they are talking about. What your saying is basically, if not alot of people die from using a certain drug then its ok for us sxe people to use it then. The death rate of cannabis isn't exactly topping the charts like heroin and shit so is it ok to smoke weed because it doesn't kill that many people?

well, have you called choke and told him the bad news yet?

i'm not saying it's okay if alot of people have or haven't died. i'm not saying that caffeine isn't a drug. what i am saying is that caffeine doesn't make or break someones "Edge".
that's it.

so maybe one or two people have died from caffeine intoxication.
but if it's so bad why isn't there age laws to prevent underage kids from buying redbulls? like other legally and socially accepted "recreational drugs"

and to be fair, i've said things that were alot more stupid than this.... but at least i can admit it.... unlike the people saying "straightedge people can't drink cokes"





In my eyes you basically have been, I have done my best to try and get across what I think with my posts but I mustn't be straight edge enough, I have only been edge for a year so I have no right in telling you what I think.

fair enough, if you believe i am completely and utterly proved wrong then so be it. i could care less.... i never said you weren't "straightedge enough" that's what YOU people are trying to say to others, not me.

the time somebodies "put in" on being straightedge is not a factor for me. you said i don't know about straightedge, and i told you how long i have. that's it. it wasn't meant for a "i know this much because i'm this old blah blah bullshit." that's how YOU took it.


Dusty and straightxed, listen to those guys, they know what they are talking about more than anyone on here.

although i don't believe i will learn anything from either of these two. Dusty seems like he's actually pretty smart...... can't say much for the other character though.....

[xsecx]

don't get it twisted, i believe that caffeine is addictive and unhealthy. i agree that straightedge kids should abstain from it, but i don't agree that it makes or breaks somebodies "edge" it just doesn't make much sense to me to abstain from "illegal drugs" but not abstain from artificial or over-caffinated foods/drinks which can have alot of the same effects.


so basically you actually agree with the people here. I don't see where anything you've said here is ANY different than what anyone else has said in this thread. I also don't see where anyone said that someone "breaks edge" if they consume caffeine. I do see you and everyone else saying that if you're edge it would logically make sense that you would abstain from caffeine.

[Tahir]

so basically you actually agree with the people here. I don't see where anything you've said here is ANY different than what anyone else has said in this thread. I do see you and everyone else saying that if you're edge it would logically make sense that you would abstain from caffeine.

will somebody give the man a gold star... i do believe that unnatural caffeine should be avoided. (i say unnatural because i'm talking about ADDED caffeine.)


I also don't see where anyone said that someone "breaks edge" if they consume caffeine.

maybe this will refresh your memory.

YOU actually said this in post #2 of this thread.

"Caffeine is probably the most accepted and used drug in the world. By saying you're straight edge it means you're against the recreational use of drugs and energy drinks and caffeine are definitely recreational."

plus a couple of your homies are trying to make this claim as well...

[straightXed]

will somebody give the man a gold star... i do believe that unnatural caffeine should be avoided. (i say unnatural because i'm talking about ADDED caffeine.)

So why wouldn't you avoid caffiene found naturally?




maybe this will refresh your memory.

YOU actually said this in post #2 of this thread.

"Caffeine is probably the most accepted and used drug in the world. By saying you're straight edge it means you're against the recreational use of drugs and energy drinks and caffeine are definitely recreational."

plus a couple of your homies are trying to make this claim as well...


Thats doesn't actually say they have broken edge it just illustrates an inconsistancy and puts the idea forward in way some people may not have thought about it before. I mean caffeine is a very accepted drug so much so that a lot of people don't even think it is a drug. It shows why caffeine should be avoided but awaits a reason to say why it shouldn't be avoided, if no one has a satisfactory reason to condone the use of caffeine recreationally then there is no reason to. If the reasons to avoid are not agreable by yourself then you obviously wouldn't live in accordance to those reasons but it would raise the questions of why they aren't agreable and what logically makes it condonable to consume caffeine whilst being straightedge. No one is saying you aren't edge etc. its a rather open discussion but i fail to see the consistancy within a stance against drugs and the consumption of caffeine, those are my thoughts and others may think differently and the idea of the discussion is to get other peoples thoughts on the idea. It might make you think twice about your stance or maybe just add strength to what you already thought, hardcore is all about bouncing ideas and opinions around, this is no different, you gather information but ultimately make up your own mind. But what i see this kind of discussion doing is is seeing how people got to their decision, is it just adopted through laziness, ignorance or the lack of will to examin ones actions in accordance with beliefs. Or is their some consistantant reasoning to indulge in caffeine whilst being straightedge?

[RecoiL]

I was going to ask if anyone had more websites giving information on the negative effects of caffeine. I saw Dusty already posted a link to erowid, is there any others? I don't consume caffeine although I would like to learn a little more about it.

Has anyone been to http://www.energyfiend.com?
It will tell you how much caffeine it takes to kill you here http://www.energyfiend.com/death-by-caffeine/

[xsecx]

I was going to ask if anyone had more websites giving information on the negative effects of caffeine. I saw Dusty already posted a link to erowid, is there any others? I don't consume caffeine although I would like to learn a little more about it.

Has anyone been to http://www.energyfiend.com?
It will tell you how much caffeine it takes to kill you here http://www.energyfiend.com/death-by-caffeine/

http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/p010247.html

[RecoiL]

Thanks again Dusty

[Sand Stealer]

[QUOTE]

how many people have died as a result of caffine? maybe you should learn a little about what you are talking about.



well go ahead and prove me completely and utterly wrong. this should be interesting.

Actually, my aunt is a research scientist into drug use and abuse and she told me when I was talking to her about straightedge that drinks like red bull are very dangerous because people don't realise what the caffine content can do to you in excessive consumption. She told me that she has heard of a lot of people dying of it.

I don't want my head bitten off, I just thought I would contribute something constructive?

I personally don't have anything with caffine in, but I try not to judge other people so I wouldn't condemn those that did.

[D1988]

I don't want my head bitten off, I just thought I would contribute something constructive?

You won't get your head bitten off for contributing to a discussion, and to be honest you just re-iterated the fact that people do die form caffeine consumption even though others argued that they don't.

[Sand Stealer]

You won't get your head bitten off for contributing to a discussion, and to be honest you just re-iterated the fact that people do die form caffeine consumption even though others argued that they don't.

Thanks, I am used to getting my head bitten off a lot for my views! I thought adding some more scientific proof to the argument might help.

[D1988]

Thanks, I am used to getting my head bitten off a lot for my views! I thought adding some scientific proof to the argument might help.

Everyone has there views and everyone is allowed to express them. As long as you can back up what you say then nobody can bite your head off :)

[SgtD]

[QUOTE]

oh so now you are saying that you can do drugs as long as it doesn't affect you? some people can drink alot of alcohol before it takes effect, same with marijuana. so can someone be straightedge if they only drink a little alcohol/smoke a little weed and stop before they get fucked up? no, but by your arguments against only SOME caffeine they can since caffeine apparantly is a drug and can make or break somebodies "edge".

i'm just saying, if you are going to say that "you can't be straightedge if you consume caffeine" then you should abstain from ALL caffeine. not just most. that's like drinking "near beer" or "wine coolers" because it's supposedly impossible to get "drunk" from unless you drink alot. or smoking as long as you don't "Inhale"
i see alot of talk about "green teas" and "caffeine free" teas, but these still have Caffeine in them. they are only considered "decaffinated" because MOST of the caffeine has been removed.

don't get it twisted, i believe that caffeine is addictive and unhealthy. i agree that straightedge kids should abstain from it, but i don't agree that it makes or breaks somebodies "edge" it just doesn't make much sense to me to abstain from "illegal drugs" but not abstain from artificial or over-caffinated foods/drinks which can have alot of the same effects.




it's pretty simple really. yes. if a pig was pumped full of steroids, and you eat the pig, you are eating the steroids. where do the steroids go after they are pumped into the pig? they don't just dissapear.



most people don't get high from smoking a cigarette either, so why is getting high a requirement to decide whether or not you should abstain from other drugs?
most people don't get drunk off of a little alcohol either.

in fact alot of people get "high" from adrenaline, are straightedge people supposed to abstain from things that give them an "adrenaline high?"



if caffeine is a drug, so is sugar. i'm not going to try and "prove" anything. but have you ever experienced a “sugar rush” if you have then you know that it affects the consciousness and sugar stimulates the same parts of the brain as cocaine. And certainly sugar can be habit-forming, sugar is unhealthy, can cause serious health risks if consumed in large quantities or over long periods of time, It's a chemical substance and can alter the state of mind... so Yes, sugar is a drug.



are you sure it's ONLY about abstaining from "recreational drug use?"
would you drink a tea made from cannibus for medicinal use?
would you, eat cannibus cookies if you had cancer AIDS or other diseases that Cannibus has been prescribed for?
i'm guessing not, so that isn't exactly "recreational drug usage" is it.
and how does drinking a coke count as "recreational drug usage?"

and that's cool, if for YOU straightedge is only abstaining from drugs and has nothing to do with health. but not everybody agrees with this. i'm not saying you are "wrong" or i am "right" that's what is so awesome about "straightedge" not everybody has the same reasons for being straightedge.
but i gotta ask, why do you abstain from drugs if your health is not a factor?
and what is Crucial Youth gonna do when they find out what you said about health?
there's difference between fruits that have so minimal caffeine and alcohol in them, that you had to eat a truckload of them to take a slight effect and a bottle of energy drink which has ADDED caffeine in it just to take effect.
or another example. why is it wrong if i eat a candybar, sure it has a minimal amount of caffeine which you can't trace down even. i would die if i had to eat a ton of candy bars till the caffeine took effect. I can't see how you can compare this with drinking a beer. A beer has an amount of alcohol which takes effect on everybody. now eat an orange and take an alcohol test....

yes, i only abstain from recreational drug use. i take pills for medication, for my allergy for example. in my country they don't prescribe cannibus (there must be some alternatives for it). i don't think i would use them though. my doctor asked me one time if i wanted a liqued based expectorant which had alcohol in it, or pills instead. i've chosen the pills, because i knew i would have hated the alcohol more. (yeah, i know the pills were drugs too)
straight edge is about abstaining from recreational drug usage. prove me wrong.

if sugar is a drug, is salt a drug too?

I abstain from drugs because i don't find it fun, and i think it's really stupid to take them to feel good. i don't need substances to depend on.
and i couldn't care less about crucial youth they were just mocking sxe.

[xsecx]

Thanks, I am used to getting my head bitten off a lot for my views! I thought adding some more scientific proof to the argument might help.

if you have scientific proof or are able to support are argument you'll never get your head bitten off. It's when people make statements without backing it up that it's ever a problem.

[Tahir]

[QUOTE=SgtD][QUOTE=Tahir]
there's difference between fruits that have so minimal caffeine and alcohol in them, that you had to eat a truckload of them to take a slight effect and a bottle of energy drink which has ADDED caffeine in it just to take effect.

which is why i said i avoid added caffeine. i would rather drink echinacea tea instead of getting sick rather than take "medicine" which is why i do not believe teas with Caffeine are necessarily bad.


or another example. why is it wrong if i eat a candybar, sure it has a minimal amount of caffeine which you can't trace down even. i would die if i had to eat a ton of candy bars till the caffeine took effect. I can't see how you can compare this with drinking a beer. A beer has an amount of alcohol which takes effect on everybody. now eat an orange and take an alcohol test....

i'm not comparing fruits with beer. you claim that alcohol effects everybody, when in fact some people need more alcohol then others. alot of people drink a glass of wine with meals and has little or no effect on their capacity to make decisions. in fact a glass of wine would not even show up in any "alcohol tests" you are talking about.
and if alcohol in EVERY way shape or form is not "edge" then how do you justify saying SOME caffeine is okay when large amounts is not?

ultimately we believe the same thing about caffeine, i'm not arguing this.
i am arguing that abstaining from caffeine in general has no part of being "straightedge" it is just a smart thing to do.


yes, i only abstain from recreational drug use. i take pills for medication, for my allergy for example. in my country they don't prescribe cannibus (there must be some alternatives for it). i don't think i would use them though. my doctor asked me one time if i wanted a liqued based expectorant which had alcohol in it, or pills instead. i've chosen the pills, because i knew i would have hated the alcohol more. (yeah, i know the pills were drugs too)

what if you found out that your pills had more side effects as cannibus, would you switch? which they probably do. i'm not talking about sitting around listening to bob marley smoking out with your friends....

i'm just saying that there are herbs, teas (with caffeine) and your diet that could help your allergy situation better than taking pills that you probably don't even know what is really in them.
i'm not judging you at all, i'm not even trying to argue with you or "prove" anything to you. i'm just saying just because a "doctor" says it's okay doesn't mean it is. and just because some people use certain things "recreationally" doesn't mean it is inherently bad.


straight edge is about abstaining from recreational drug usage. prove me wrong.

that's not all it is about. i'm not going to prove anything to you, if that is what it is to you then it's all hunky dory as far as i'm concerned. but according to you, half of the planet is straightedge then.


if sugar is a drug, is salt a drug too?

i just said, sugar has just as much if not more effect as caffeine. so if you're going to abstain from caffeine, why not abstain from sugar too? (this is a question)

at this rate, you are picking and choosing which "recreational drugs" you are abstaining from.
i mean, the reason why caffeine is considered a "recreational drug" is because of the effect it takes on the body when consumed in large quantities right? well the same goes for sugar, artificial colors, artificial flavors, and many other ingredients.
again, i'm not trying to prove anything, just pointing out how inconsistant your stance on mind/body altering substance is.


I abstain from drugs because i don't find it fun, and i think it's really stupid to take them to feel good.

and good for you. but how does this not show inconsistancies in your choice of substance abuse?


i don't need substances to depend on.

except pills?


and i couldn't care less about crucial youth they were just mocking sxe.

well the CY comment was a joke....

[xsecx]

which is why i said i avoid added caffeine. i would rather drink echinacea tea instead of getting sick rather than take "medicine" which is why i do not believe teas with Caffeine are necessarily bad.


and you could get the same effect by drinking decaf or herbal teas and avoid any substantial amount of caffeine.



i'm not comparing fruits with beer. you claim that alcohol effects everybody, when in fact some people need more alcohol then others. alot of people drink a glass of wine with meals and has little or no effect on their capacity to make decisions. in fact a glass of wine would not even show up in any "alcohol tests" you are talking about.
and if alcohol in EVERY way shape or form is not "edge" then how do you justify saying SOME caffeine is okay when large amounts is not?

the amount of alcohol in a glass of wine is enough to give you a blood alcohol content between .02% and .03% which actually is enough to feel the effects of it. now if you want to talk about apples to apples, then you'd need to talk about the amount of caffeine in decaf tea and chocolate to the amount of alcohol in fruit juice or soy sauce. In your analogy an energy drink and a glass of wine or a beer would be comparable. The amount of caffeine in decaf tea and chocolate is so negligible that it is medically impossible for it to effect you.



ultimately we believe the same thing about caffeine, i'm not arguing this.
i am arguing that abstaining from caffeine in general has no part of being "straightedge" it is just a smart thing to do.

so why is caffeine different from any other drug?



that's not all it is about. i'm not going to prove anything to you, if that is what it is to you then it's all hunky dory as far as i'm concerned. but according to you, half of the planet is straightedge then.

where is this half of the planet that doesn't use recreational drugs?




i just said, sugar has just as much if not more effect as caffeine. so if you're going to abstain from caffeine, why not abstain from sugar too? (this is a question)


caffeine is a drug and sugar isn't for starters. Sugar is also impossible to avoid considering it's in damn near all food.



at this rate, you are picking and choosing which "recreational drugs" you are abstaining from.
i mean, the reason why caffeine is considered a "recreational drug" is because of the effect it takes on the body when consumed in large quantities right? well the same goes for sugar, artificial colors, artificial flavors, and many other ingredients.
again, i'm not trying to prove anything, just pointing out how inconsistant your stance on mind/body altering substance is.

there is a line between mind and body alterating. There is also a line between drug and food. You're trying to make believe that that line doesn't exist, but it does. Caffeine is considered a recreational drug because it's fits the definition. It's used in the same way that all stimulants are, so how is it inconsistant?

[Tahir]

and you could get the same effect by drinking decaf or herbal teas and avoid any substantial amount of caffeine.


the amount of alcohol in a glass of wine is enough to give you a blood alcohol content between .02% and .03% which actually is enough to feel the effects of it. now if you want to talk about apples to apples, then you'd need to talk about the amount of caffeine in decaf tea and chocolate to the amount of alcohol in fruit juice or soy sauce. In your analogy an energy drink and a glass of wine or a beer would be comparable. The amount of caffeine in decaf tea and chocolate is so negligible that it is medically impossible for it to effect you.


so why is caffeine different from any other drug?


where is this half of the planet that doesn't use recreational drugs?




caffeine is a drug and sugar isn't for starters. Sugar is also impossible to avoid considering it's in damn near all food.


there is a line between mind and body alterating. There is also a line between drug and food. You're trying to make believe that that line doesn't exist, but it does. Caffeine is considered a recreational drug because it's fits the definition. It's used in the same way that all stimulants are, so how is it inconsistant?


do you avoid ALL caffeine? chocolate etc?
if not then THAT is how it is inconsistant.

[xsecx]

do you avoid ALL caffeine? chocolate etc?
if not then THAT is how it is inconsistant.

do you avoid ALL alcohol?

there isn't a point to avoid ALL caffeine, because the caffeine in chocolate and decaf is completely medically impossible to have ANY effect on the body, so why would or should it be avoided?

[Tahir]

do you avoid ALL alcohol?

there isn't a point to avoid ALL caffeine, because the caffeine in chocolate and decaf is completely medically impossible to have ANY effect on the body, so why would or should it be avoided?


because i'm not the one saying straightedge means not drinking caffeine. am i.

and why do you think caffeine in chocolate is impossible to have any effect???
my wife nurses our baby, and if she eats a minimal amount of chocolate, it effects the baby to where he will not go to sleep for hours, and is super hyper. so minimal amounts DO have an effect.

we ultimately agree. and i've said this before. we just don't agree when people say that Caffeine falls under the "straightedge" what NOT to do list. that is all.

and going back to sugar, artificial flavors and colors, they DO have an effect in minimal amounts, so does this mean that you avoid them? because by your standards of avoiding caffeine, you should be.

[Tahir]

also when i said i drink teas instead of medicine, i do drink green teas and "decaf"... but there is still caffeine in both, which is why i don't claim to NOT drink caffeine....

[xsecx]

because i'm not the one saying straightedge means not drinking caffeine. am i.

so what makes caffeine different from any other drug? and do you avoid ALL alcohol?



and why do you think caffeine in chocolate is impossible to have any effect???
my wife nurses our baby, and if she eats a minimal amount of chocolate, it effects the baby to where he will not go to sleep for hours, and is super hyper. so minimal amounts DO have an effect.


Because the caffeine has to be taken in a dose of 30-60 mg before they're felt Decaf and most chocolate is between 3-10 mg per serving. So your proof is that caffeine effects a baby so it must also effect an adult that is roughly 5-8 times it's size?



we ultimately agree. and i've said this before. we just don't agree when people say that Caffeine falls under the "straightedge" what NOT to do list. that is all.


so why doesn't it? what makes it different?



and going back to sugar, artificial flavors and colors, they DO have an effect in minimal amounts, so does this mean that you avoid them? because by your standards of avoiding caffeine, you should be.
my standard of avoiding caffeine is based on recreational drug use, what you're talking about is substances that aren't. Now if you can show me that these effect the mind and are addictive like caffeine, then we can keep talking about it.

[xsecx]

also when i said i drink teas instead of medicine, i do drink green teas and "decaf"... but there is still caffeine in both, which is why i don't claim to NOT drink caffeine....

and the medicinal qualities aren't found in the tea, they're from other herbs.

[Tahir]

[QUOTE=Tahir]

Actually, my aunt is a research scientist into drug use and abuse and she told me when I was talking to her about straightedge that drinks like red bull are very dangerous because people don't realise what the caffine content can do to you in excessive consumption. She told me that she has heard of a lot of people dying of it.

I don't want my head bitten off, I just thought I would contribute something constructive?

I personally don't have anything with caffine in, but I try not to judge other people so I wouldn't condemn those that did.


sorry but, "my aunt heard this or that..." doesn't count as "scientific proof".

[Tahir]

and the medicinal qualities aren't found in the tea, they're from other herbs.

actually smart guy, instead of eating a bunch of dried herbs, it's better to drink it in tea form. so it can "act together" some ingredients are needed to cancel out the toxicity or side effects of other ingredients, while some ingredients require a mixture of other ingredients to be effective.
maybe you should read a fucking book once in a while.

or stick to what you know, like drawing x's on your hands and buying champion hoodies.

and what exactly do you think Teas are made of??? herbs. so, yes the medicinal qualities are found in the tea BECAUSE of the herbs.

[RecoiL]

I came across this shirt which I thought I would share with you guys and see what you think. Personally I think its dumb.

http://merchnow.com/store/graphics/00000001/seogcaff450.jpg
Link (http://merchnow.com/store/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=m&Product_Code=SEOGCAFF00-TS&Category_Code=SEOG&Product_Count=10)

[Tahir]

do you avoid ALL alcohol?

there isn't a point to avoid ALL caffeine, because the caffeine in chocolate and decaf is completely medically impossible to have ANY effect on the body, so why would or should it be avoided?


so is there a point to avoid all cannibus? because you can drink teas with cannibus and feel no effect of the thc.

i avoid anything with alcohol added in it, or fermented or brewed for the purpose of being "alcohol", what are you getting at?
and where else is there "alcohol" to be avoided?

[Sand Stealer]

[QUOTE=Sand Stealer]


sorry but, "my aunt heard this or that..." doesn't count as "scientific proof".

My aunt didn't 'hear' about the stuff she researched though, and she found that caffeine is very dangerous in the right doses

[D1988]

She said her aunt does scientific research into things like this, it doesn't say anywhere that she "heard this or that"

Surely by reading what Sand Stealer wrote you would assume that her aunt knows what she is talking about and isn't just saying things she has heard. After all her aunt is involved in scientific research.

[xsecx]

actually smart guy, instead of eating a bunch of dried herbs, it's better to drink it in tea form. so it can "act together" some ingredients are needed to cancel out the toxicity or side effects of other ingredients, while some ingredients require a mixture of other ingredients to be effective.
maybe you should read a fucking book once in a while.


and you can drink them in tea form without caffeine. The caffeine isn't necessary for the "medicine" to work and you can find alternatives. So why exactly would i need to read a book?



or stick to what you know, like drawing x's on your hands and buying champion hoodies.


when in doubt make an irrelevant insult. at least you're returning to form.



and what exactly do you think Teas are made of??? herbs. so, yes the medicinal qualities are found in the tea BECAUSE of the herbs.

yes, the ADDED herbs and not the actual tea itself. And to clarify when you're saying tea you appear to be speaking about specifically about Camellia sinensis.

[xsecx]

so is there a point to avoid all cannibus? because you can drink teas with cannibus and feel no effect of the thc.


if it doesn't effect you, then why would you avoid it? Following your logic, why would you avoid it even if it does effect you? Also why are you replying to this one again instead of my latest reply to you?




i avoid anything with alcohol added in it, or fermented or brewed for the purpose of being "alcohol", what are you getting at?
and where else is there "alcohol" to be avoided?
So you don't drink any fruit juices or eat any leaven bread or soy sauce? If you don't, why don't you? The point being that if you do, you most likely do because there's such a nominal amount of alcohol in each that there isn't really a point in avoiding it.

[xCrucialDudex]

Is it really about something being a drug or is it about how that drug makes us feel after all?

Did straight edge kids come up with "against recreational drug use" principle for the sake of avoiding any drug possible? What ultimately led/caused them to adopt this principle?

[xsecx]

Is it really about something being a drug or is it about how that drug makes us feel after all?

Did straight edge kids come up with "against recreational drug use" principle for the sake of avoiding any drug possible? What ultimately led/caused them to adopt this principle?

because the term drug is incredibly wide and includes things like medicine that only really become an issue when they are abused recreationally.

[xCrucialDudex]

because the term drug is incredibly wide and includes things like medicine that only really become an issue when they are abused recreationally.

Does that answer "is" and "what"?

[xsecx]

Does that answer "is" and "what"?

yes.