food and sXe

[the_pope]

hi newbie here but thought id post this up and see what you edgers had to say about this? looks like ill be quitting pasta and pizza now...this is considered a drug amongst you right? :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine

you are what you eat as they say! happy edging fellas ;)

[D1988]

hi newbie here but thought id post this up and see what you edgers had to say about this? looks like ill be quitting pasta and pizza now...this is considered a drug amongst you right? :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine

you are what you eat as they say! happy edging fellas ;)

You realize the amounts found in tomatoes, potatoes etc is minuscule.

There is tiny traces of alcohol in bread and fresh orange juice, but these amounts are so tiny that they will not have an affect on you.

Nicotine and alcohol is probably in a tonne of other foods and drinks too that we don't know about, to avoid both of these 100% for your entire life IS impossible.

[the_pope]

yeah true but isnt the whole idea once again going back to an earlier post about caffeine and how its such a tiny amount that it dont effect you...ive never seen anyone (part from little children ofcourse) get high from having a can of cola lol I mean lets face it...it either is a drug and shouldnt be consumed or if you think its ok in small amounts then...woopee...lets all have a cigarette...its only a tiny amount...most of the nicotine gets burnt of anyways and it doesnt make you tipsy lol...does it? just like caffeine?

anyone else got an oponion on this too!

hey i should eat more bread then...goes down great with a nice shiraz, dont you think?

[xvunderx]

yeah true but isnt the whole idea once again going back to an earlier post about caffeine and how its such a tiny amount that it dont effect you...ive never seen anyone (part from little children ofcourse) get high from having a can of cola lol I mean lets face it...it either is a drug and shouldnt be consumed or if you think its ok in small amounts then...woopee...lets all have a cigarette...its only a tiny amount...most of the nicotine gets burnt of anyways and it doesnt make you tipsy lol...does it? just like caffeine?

anyone else got an oponion on this too!

hey i should eat more bread then...goes down great with a nice shiraz, dont you think?

Thing is it would neigh impossible to get a high off of the nicotine in a tomato, and as to the effects of a can cola, they are there, people are just so conditioned they don't notice it as anything different.

The fact is there are trace amounts of alcohol etc in all kinds of foods, but not in quantities enough to ever do anything, for example you'd throw up long before you felt the buzz from consuming enough soy sauce for the alcohol present in it to effect you, same with the orange juice that's been sitting in the fridge a few days, and in this case as well.

Sxe isn't about moderation, but it is realistic, and it's a waste of time to worry about trace elements not there for the purpose of a high, and incapable of giving you a high.

Would you suggest people stop handling money for the trace amounts of cocaine on so much currency these days?

Of course you're just a troll who thinks he's clever, good luck getting drunk on mighty white, let me know how many loaves you had to consume before you felt lose enough to dance. (but I;m guessing since your stomach wouldn't have the capacity to hold that much, we'll never find out)

[xsecx]

yeah true but isnt the whole idea once again going back to an earlier post about caffeine and how its such a tiny amount that it dont effect you...ive never seen anyone (part from little children ofcourse) get high from having a can of cola lol I mean lets face it...it either is a drug and shouldnt be consumed or if you think its ok in small amounts then...woopee...lets all have a cigarette...its only a tiny amount...most of the nicotine gets burnt of anyways and it doesnt make you tipsy lol...does it? just like caffeine?

anyone else got an oponion on this too!

hey i should eat more bread then...goes down great with a nice shiraz, dont you think?

there's a difference between a trace amount and an amount that can effect someone.
the amount of nicotine in tomato, etc is a trace amount. the amount of caffeine in coke is not.

[the_pope]

so you guys get high off coke eh? wow i gotta try that...just after your recommendation of a loaf of bread! well thats saturday night all figured out :p

ok its great what you guys do but i really dont think quitting tea cos of caffeine is sensible. just keep of the dope n all that kinda shit and im sure you'll do just well...and the bread too!

[xsecx]

so you guys get high off coke eh? wow i gotta try that...just after your recommendation of a loaf of bread! well thats saturday night all figured out :p

ok its great what you guys do but i really dont think quitting tea cos of caffeine is sensible. just keep of the dope n all that kinda shit and im sure you'll do just well...and the bread too!

what exactly is your point though, other than being a lame attempt a troll?

[D1988]

OK, go and read through the forums, I am sure there is atleast 3 different threads where people have been talking about the sort of caffeine related comments you made.

Why did you even come on here and post if you have no intentions of discussing these topics with other people?

You aren't all high and mighty you know, you don't know it all.

[Sand Stealer]

Can I just ask if you are straightedge?

Straight edge isn't about how much caffeine is is a freaking loaf of bread, for God's sake, you argue that there is such and such drug in every food on the planet until it comes down to there is nothing that we can eat! That sounds petty and childish to me, but go ahead, you can if you want.

You don't seem to understand that not every straight edge person does abstain from caffeine. I do, but I'm not everyone. Please actually do some research on the beliefs of straight edge before you come out with tripe like this.

[xCAMIx]

If eating pasta is anti edge - - I'm quitting edge haha. But the caffiene in soda is something that may affect you - - enough to do it, but not enough to deeply harm you. I don't drink it. But I'm going to question N.O. Xplode. What do you all think of that stuff?

[PROPER JERK]

N.O explode has a seriously large amount of caffeine in it. Methylxanthines (caffeine), dont use it if it disagrees with your edge? For similar effects use nitrix which is caffeine free and seperate creatine. If you can handle using about 5x the amount of caffeine as in a can of coke in each drink of N.O explode keep using it.

[xCAMIx]

Nah I don't use it. But I've been looking for something with the effects that's caffiene free. Nitrix is just muscle hardening right?

[xCAMIx]

And here's how I look at it: too much of anything can be a drug. Anything can be addictive. Edge basically says don't let yourself get so addicted to something that it overtakes your control on your life. Now its not like I'm gonna go out and buy 5 bottles of Coke. But it's not like if I'm not paying attention and I end up with a little bit of Coke I thought was decaf that I'm gonna beat myself up over it, because really did that coke control my life? No. Therefore I don't think I broke edge in that scenario.

[straightXed]

And here's how I look at it: too much of anything can be a drug. Anything can be addictive. Edge basically says don't let yourself get so addicted to something that it overtakes your control on your life. Now its not like I'm gonna go out and buy 5 bottles of Coke. But it's not like if I'm not paying attention and I end up with a little bit of Coke I thought was decaf that I'm gonna beat myself up over it, because really did that coke control my life? No. Therefore I don't think I broke edge in that scenario.

Where does edge say that? And how can anything be a drug?

[stepinsideissue]

And here's how I look at it: too much of anything can be a drug. Anything can be addictive. Edge basically says don't let yourself get so addicted to something that it overtakes your control on your life. Now its not like I'm gonna go out and buy 5 bottles of Coke. But it's not like if I'm not paying attention and I end up with a little bit of Coke I thought was decaf that I'm gonna beat myself up over it, because really did that coke control my life? No. Therefore I don't think I broke edge in that scenario.


Straight edge isn't at all about addiction. People can be addicted to porn, gambling, food. It's a very simple concept that you still don't quite seem to understand. Don't drink, don't do drugs ( caffiene is a drug ) and listen to hardcore music. No basicly any thing. Thats straight edge cut and dry no questions. Anything beyond that you are trying to associate with straight edge that is not a part of it.

Hardcore music is a huge part of my life. I'm addicted to a main element of straight edge. So I can't be straight edge because of the fact I have too much of it.

[PROPER JERK]

Nah I don't use it. But I've been looking for something with the effects that's caffiene free. Nitrix is just muscle hardening right?

if you used nitrix before a workout and creatine for recovery after you would get almost identical effects as that of N.O explode, the difference is no caffeine. Nitrix just pumps nitrous oxide into you the same as N.O explode, but doesnt have creatine or caffeine in it.

[xsecx]

if you used nitrix before a workout and creatine for recovery after you would get almost identical effects as that of N.O explode, the difference is no caffeine. Nitrix just pumps nitrous oxide into you the same as N.O explode, but doesnt have creatine or caffeine in it.

so why is caffeine bad but nitrous oxide isn't?

[PROPER JERK]

nitrous oxide is an existing thing in your body already, nitrous oxide taken like laughing gas is different to nitrix as a supplement, laughing gas fries your brain whereas the supplement nitrix merely encourages more to pump through to your muscles and through your bloodstream. It's a difficult question when you ask why is nitrous oxide ok but caffeine isnt, my main answer would be nitrous oxide exists in your body naturally and caffeine doesnt. Yes nitrous oxide taken in one way will give a "high" or in better terms kill some brain cells, but taken in different ways it has no harm and is a naturally occuring chemical in the body. Caffeine among other substances is addictive, causes harm and gives a mental effect.

[xsecx]

nitrous oxide is an existing thing in your body already, nitrous oxide taken like laughing gas is different to nitrix as a supplement, laughing gas fries your brain whereas the supplement nitrix merely encourages more to pump through to your muscles and through your bloodstream. It's a difficult question when you ask why is nitrous oxide ok but caffeine isnt, my main answer would be nitrous oxide exists in your body naturally and caffeine doesnt. Yes nitrous oxide taken in one way will give a "high" or in better terms kill some brain cells, but taken in different ways it has no harm and is a naturally occuring chemical in the body. Caffeine among other substances is addictive, causes harm and gives a mental effect.

nitrous oxide doesn't exist in the body. nitric oxide does. That being said, just because something exists in the body, does it make usage as a "supplement" any different than a drug? Especially when you're using it recreationally?

[PROPER JERK]

first off I do not use it, Secondly its just something that aids in recovery and fuels tissue cells, comparing it as something harmful or a drug is like saying water is a drug because it quenches your thirst and refreshes you. Caffeine is much different, millions of people rely on it daily and get serious withdrawals and anxiety if they miss a cup or can. I would consider nitrous oxide bad in the supplement form if you took very high dosages of it... consume enough of anything and your body gets withdrawal symptoms when you stop. I understand where you are coming from though, I know alot of people that swear off any supplements completely as they see it as an aid or a crutch which disagrees with their beliefs/views. Personally part of my edge is self improvement, I dont take nitrix because I dont feel it does anything great for the price, but I do take alot of supplements.

Would you consider taking protein supplements or vitamins a drug?

[xsecx]

first off I do not use it, Secondly its just something that aids in recovery and fuels tissue cells, comparing it as something harmful or a drug is like saying water is a drug because it quenches your thirst and refreshes you. Caffeine is much different, millions of people rely on it daily and get serious withdrawals and anxiety if they miss a cup or can. I would consider nitrous oxide bad in the supplement form if you took very high dosages of it... consume enough of anything and your body gets withdrawal symptoms when you stop. I understand where you are coming from though, I know alot of people that swear off any supplements completely as they see it as an aid or a crutch which disagrees with their beliefs/views. Personally part of my edge is self improvement, I dont take nitrix because I dont feel it does anything great for the price, but I do take alot of supplements.


not all drugs are harmful. caffeine isn't harmful in small doses, what you're using to contrast is an extreme case, and if you mean headaches as "serious withdrawals" then maybe. And again, you keep saying nitrous oxide, when you're talking about nitric oxide, they are 2 totally different things. If you're using supplements, especially in body building, then I'd have to ask why? If you're using supplements because your not eating well, I'd still have to ask why?



Would you consider taking protein supplements or vitamins a drug?
I consider drugs a drug, I also don't think that drugs should be avoided. I do however think that taking drugs recreationally or as a short cut wrong. There's a world of difference between taking a vitamin supplement due to deficiency and taking a substance for body building.

[PROPER JERK]

I take protein supplements as a meal replacement, I find it alot more easy to get the amount of protein I want without having to eat a shit load of meat for it. I take vitamins to keep me healthy, as its not always so easy to get good fresh produce on a busy schedule. I dont have a deficiency, I Just like to live a healthy lifestyle. I am not extremely into body building I mainly just like to keep fit, I dont use nitrix or supplements of that kind because I dont see any need for them and that level of bodybuilding doesnt interest me at all.

[Paracetamol]

nitrous oxide is an existing thing in your body already, nitrous oxide taken like laughing gas is different to nitrix as a supplement, laughing gas fries your brain whereas the supplement nitrix merely encourages more to pump through to your muscles and through your bloodstream. It's a difficult question when you ask why is nitrous oxide ok but caffeine isnt, my main answer would be nitrous oxide exists in your body naturally and caffeine doesnt. Yes nitrous oxide taken in one way will give a "high" or in better terms kill some brain cells, but taken in different ways it has no harm and is a naturally occuring chemical in the body. Caffeine among other substances is addictive, causes harm and gives a mental effect.

Many substances aside from caffeine taken in certain neuropharmacological climates can cause them to become addictive so this is really a widespread issue. Why does something existing in your body mean that its okay to 'supplement' it? Ethanol receptors exist in the brain, as well as barbiturates and cannabinoids. But taking 'supplements' which in that case I would assume includes alcohol and cannabis would mess with the chemical balance of things no end, and you would end up feeling completely different. There would be a noticeable effect between taking the supplement and not, and the case is true with nitrix and other such products. What I'm saying is it seems you are essentially condoning the use of substances as a means for changing the state of your body and mind, which to me is an action that does not fit with edge.
You also mention that you take vitamin supplements as there is not readily accesible fresh food around, but surely you could argue the same for taking shitloads of antidepressants cos 'its hard to get happy these days'? There are much wider implications to everything you are saying and I think you should consider this.

[PROPER JERK]

Are you stupid? How the fuck does protein meal replacements include alcohol and cannabis, anti depressants do nothing but fuck you up more and create a temporary happiness or high just like any recreational drug, so no you couldnt argue that same thing. Vitamins and minerals are needed to live a healthy lifestyle, with the lack of fresh quality organic fruit and vegetables you simply cant rely on that unless you had alot of time on your hands to source good quality organic produce. Once again I never said I took nitrix you really have to read better, I would never take it because I dont think it does anything useful, maybe if you were a competition body builder and wanted to feel and looked pumped up always its different.


But taking 'supplements' which in that case I would assume includes alcohol and cannabis would mess with the chemical balance of things no end, and you would end up feeling completely different

you really need to get out more if you think that, did you just reply to make an idiot out of yourself. XsecX has made some valid points but it seems you just replied without thinking to jump on the bandwagon. The point your missing is that he is asking why is taking nitrix, something that makes you feel different when you take it any different to using caffeine.

Once again I dont take it, but was interested in his opinion on it.

[Paracetamol]

1. No I wouldn't say I was stupid, not least because I never said that protein meal replacements contain cannabis, etc.
2. What I was actually asking, and will have to repeat, is why "when you ask why is nitrous oxide ok but caffeine isnt, my main answer would be nitrous oxide exists in your body naturally and caffeine doesnt". Firstly it's incorrect but I was asking why you hold the belief that if something exists already in the body, it is less worse to take synthesised substances of that chemical or whatever, than similar substances which don't already exist in your body. I would like an answer please. I provided some examples of things which exist already in your body in which I think your reasoning of 'its ok to supplement them cos they're already in your body' would break down based on your edge views.
3. In your post you told me I needed to "read better" and implied that I believed you took nitrix. I do not believe this and cannot find in my post where I stated this, can you help me out on that one? I don't care if you don't take it; in fact you keep implying that the only reason you don't is because you are not a bodybuilder, but if you were, you'd take some!
4. You seem to have missed my point completely regarding the fruit and veg concept. I was saying it seems like you have quite a lazy attitude towards the chemical control of your body in that if you can't find something naturally, you feel it is essential to substitute that something with artificial products. I simply gave another situation in which you could apply this belief which you have put across (albeit not explicitly, but its there) with the antidepressants. I'm not sure you understand me, so here's some another: 'There's no gym near me/I'm too busy to go, so I'll take slimming pills'.
5. Big misinterpretation on your behalf. Let me quote you:
"The point your missing is that he is asking why is taking nitrix, something that makes you feel different when you take it any different to using caffeine."
I have not missed that point whatsoever. I was interested in that question, and even more interested by your answer which was:
"when you ask why is nitrous oxide ok but caffeine isnt, my main answer would be nitrous oxide exists in your body naturally and caffeine doesnt". Okay?

I'm not sure if this has been a big waste of time seeing as you so horrendously overlooked every single point in my initial reply but I do think it's important that you understand exactly what your argument is and why you would hold it, when it seems to contrast with other aspects of your lifestyle. Please try and take this in because I don't want to, and wont, repeat myself again.

[PROPER JERK]

And I said that answer because the nitrous oxide/ or nitric oxide... Whatever floats your boat is naturally in your body and it helps blood and oxygen pump to your muscles, and the reason I didnt think it was wrong is because I dont see the problem with taking something harmless that just increases that activity in your body, the natural existing chemical in your blood. Its like saying I cant take water because it rehydrates me. True the fact is that water is essential to survive but nitrix isnt, but thats why bodybuilders use nitrix because at their size their body usually doesnt produce enough of the chemical to actively pump it through.

And I didnt overlook anything, you clearly stated this


But taking 'supplements' which in that case I would assume includes alcohol and cannabis would mess with the chemical balance of things no end, and you would end up feeling completely different

There is not one supplement available that contains alcohol or cannabis and alcohol or cannabis are not supplements, they are "substances".

There are supplements available that contain caffeine, and there is supplements available that contain Nitrous oxide. I wouldnt take either but I was debating with xsecx the problems with nitrous oxide, I personally dont have a problem with it but value his opinion and if there is valid points to someones argument then it will greatly change my opinion.


You seem to have missed my point completely regarding the fruit and veg concept. I was saying it seems like you have quite a lazy attitude towards the chemical control of your body in that if you can't find something naturally, you feel it is essential to substitute that something with artificial products.

I am in no means lazy and will always take the way that is hardest as I follow the saying "you only get out what you put in". I dont look for shortcuts, I use pure protein supplements sourced from food, in my case whey protein. I use vitamins once again sourced from food. When you work 10 hours a day 5 days a week, you dont have the time to source the freshest most nutritious food available, I still want the same results so I take vitamins and protein naturally derived from food. I remain drug free completely, I do not take anything artificial. The main debate here was about caffeine and nitrix, and the differences... nothing about how you think I'm lazy for taking naturally derived products from food to keep healthy. Once again I'll stand by my comment that you jumped on the bandwagon because its easy to make yourself look right when someone else is questioning my opinions on things. He questioned my statements I had made and I questioned him. You just made a fool of yourself by trying to make points of how I am taking the "artificial way" when you really had no clue.

[Paracetamol]

Firstly, I need to learn how to quote so forgive me that.

Okay I think we can resolve one issue. I was not saying that supplements contain alcohol or cannabis. My reference to those substances as supplements was in the context of the hypothetical situation I had created, whereby you are supplementing what is naturally in your body, as cannabinoids and ethanol receptors exist in the body. I was saying "IN THAT CASE (i.e. the hypothetical case where it is okay to supplement things because they already exist in your body - which you stated as your response to why nitrix was different from caffeine) we would be taking cannabis and alcohol. Hope that cleared that up.

The rest of your last post I don't have much to say about cos you're contradicting yourself again. You say you will always take the way that is hardest, which is clearly not true. I don't believe that it is impossible for you to obtain fresh produce. I do believe that it would perhaps be the hardest way of you getting the vitamins and minerals that are contained in the produce. But you are not taking that hard option, you take vitamins instead.

But this is only a tiny point, I just wanted to point out your conflicting statements and actions in case you're not aware of them. No doubt me making this point will have you further convinced that I have jumped on some kind of bandwagon, even though I have said it is trivial and that the real reason I am here is because I found a comment of yours which I found interesting and wanted to question why you held the belief you put across in it. You've now answered that question and I thank you for it. Your answer, this:

"the reason I didnt think it was wrong is because I dont see the problem with taking something harmless that just increases that activity in your body, the natural existing chemical in your blood. Its like saying I cant take water because it rehydrates me. True the fact is that water is essential to survive but nitrix isnt, but thats why bodybuilders use nitrix because at their size their body usually doesnt produce enough of the chemical to actively pump it through"

has only confirmed that you think altering one's body state (and perhaps mind state, i don't know?) through the use of synthesised supplements, is okay. The example we have is a bit silly, because nitrous oxide doesn't actually exist in the body but whatever, I guess it doesn't really matter because your argument is the same. It is okay to increase activity in the body with substances, especially if you can pass it off as necessary for a purpose e.g. bodybuilding - that is essentially your belief. You have paraphrased that many times in this thread. Now you could argue where do you draw the line? I mean, by having this discussion we are increasing mental activity, and surely that's not a bad thing? Sometimes people will decrease their activity too, by perhaps sitting on the floor and meditating. I think where my issue comes in is in the fact that you are advocating the use of unnatural, and by that i do mean non-endogenous, supplements. It is true that any substance you take excessively, even if it does occur naturally, will alter the functioning of your body, mostly in a negative way. And this is where we come back to the point I initially found interesting. I believe that nitrous oxide is no different from caffeine because both will alter one's functioning when taken, regardless of the fact that (lets just pretend it does, okay...) one of them exists in the body. Sugars exist in the body, but if I was to go and spoon some cane sugar into my mouth right now because I lead a busy life and need the energy, I would probably feel different. Same with caffeine. Same with supplements that alter your functioning. Water I don't think is a very good analogy because drinking lots of water is simply going to make you need the toilet. I could say the same about food. It may seem that the distinction between what things we should and shouldn't supplement is hard to draw, but it's not; IN MY VIEW, you shouldn't take/'supplement' things, even if they occur naturally in your body, unless you NEED them. Someone doesn't need to take nitrix to survive, or caffeine. In that sense, they are not different.

[PROPER JERK]

I never actually agreed with the use of Nitrix, in the beginning I offered it as an idea to someone who was wondering about NO explode a combination of nitrous oxide, caffeine and creatine. I was then interested in comparing it to caffeine. I also seek fresh produce whenever I can and would always prefer it over supplements, Unless you have hours and hours of free time though, its hard to have fresh good nutritional food always when your on a diet that needs alot more of it than regular people. I have studied food science and been interested in health and nutrition for a long time, and I eat the diet that I feel is best for me, you need more constant fresh food for my lifestyle I live which is hard with 10 hour days of work. I didnt mean to make such a long reply once again, its just hard to put everything into a simple sentence as I dont want to mislead people any further.