Videos for trade! [Archive] - Straight Edge and Hardcore Message board

SgtD

11-27-2007, 02:53 AM

Here's my list. Most of these are audience recorded shows, but there are official releases as well. Drop me a PM if you're interested.

7 Seconds - Live in L.A.! The BEST of FLIPSIDE VIDEO #5

7 seconds - Live @ Resistance Tour 2004 Vienna

Agnostic Front - Luxembourg 1993

agnostic front - last warning recordings cbgb's

Alone In A Crowd live

another breath @ Kultiplex Budapest 2005 08 04

Bad Brains - Max's Kansas City (1979)

Bad Brains-Daytona Beach US TV 1988

Bad Religion - the riot

Black Flag - Philadelphia - 4 June, 1982

Black Flag - Los Angeles - December 10, 1982

Black Flag - Live 1984 UK

Breakdown - Tompkins Sq Park, NYC 13 August 1988

Burn - 06-21-91 - The Marquee, NY

champion @ kultiplex Budapest 2004

Circle Jerks - 5 Smash Hits - Live (1981)

Circle Jerks - Live In L A 1984

Circle Jerks-Live Rock Palace 1985

Dag Nasty 9_30 Club Washington 1985

Dag Nasty CCCommunity Centre 21st March 1986

Dead Kennedys - Lost Tapes

Dead Kennedys - The Early Years LIVE

Dead Kennedys Washington DC 18th Nov 1985

Dead Kennedys - DMPO's on Broadway

DOA & Jello Biafra -DNA Lounge SF 20th Nov 1990

DOA - Live At The Assasination Club - 16 Tracks

Dropkick Murphys - Live on St. Patrick's Day 2002

Floorpunch - Final Mosh - New York, NY - CBGBs

GBH Live At The Ace Brixton March 1983

go it alone - süss fel nap Budapest 10-11-2005

gorilla biscuits (live @ norwalk, 1988) - whole set

Green Day - Paint Factory 1989

Insted - live @ Kultiplex Budapest 2005-08-04

Justice - live @ Tüwi, Vienna 2005

Mental - live (???)

Minor threat - Live at the 9_30 club

Minor Threat - DC space

Minor threat - Buff Hall

Misfits - Live Channel Club, Boston MA 1983-3-20

Misfits - Detroit 1983 (Last Show)

Negative Approach - Detroit 1983

Ramones - Raw

Righteous Jams - ive @Tüwi, Vienna 2005-03-06

Rollins Band - Live 1988

Sex Pistols - Live at The Longhorn Dallas

Sex Pistols - live in Sweden 2 July 1977

Sex Pistols - The Filth And The Fury

Sex Positions - live at Arena, Vienna 2005-03-20

Sick Of It All - Live@A38, Budapest 2004-02-23

sick of it all - live in a dive (20 min live footage/interviews off of the enhanced cd)

Sham 69 - Adventures Of Sham 69 [DVD Rip]

s.o.d. speak english or live

s.o.d. 20 years of total dysfunction

SUPERTOUCH - Anthrax Norwalk, CT 1988

Supertouch - Club Babyhead - 12 22 90

Supertouch and other people (documentary)

United Side - Reunion 2006-05-06

verse - live @kultiplex, Budapest 2005-08-04

Void - Live set (DC ???)

Youth Of Today - Houston 8/89

Youth Of Today - Anthrax 88

Youth Of Today - No more promo+outtakes

Youth Of Today - Anthrax 88

Youth Of Today - Wigan 89

Youth Of Today - Paris 3/17/89

Youth Of Today - Anthrax 88

Youth Of Today - CT Reunion with Bold 3/7/99
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V.A./Documentaries

American hardcore

Agnostic Front, Sick of it All, Gorilla Biscuits - Live in N.Y.C. '91

Decline of western civilisation

Punk Attitude

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boston beatdown 2

Henry Rollins - goes to London

Henry Rollins - Talking from the box

Henry Rollins - Shock & Awe

Henry Rollins - Up for it

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Iron Maiden - Rock In Rio

Necro - Gory Days

slayer - Still Reigning - Reign In Blood live DVD

D1988

11-27-2007, 03:32 AM

These are on video cassettes?

SgtD

11-27-2007, 04:15 AM

These are on video cassettes?
no, all of these are digital formats, avi/mpg and original officially released DVDs.

D1988

11-27-2007, 04:46 AM

Insted - live @ Kultiplex Budapest 2005-08-04

Have I ever told you how much I love you Dini?

I have Champion - Different Directions Last Show, I don't know how we could do it, burn to disc and send in the post? or try and email the avi's?

xsecx

11-27-2007, 09:20 AM

mouseman004

11-27-2007, 02:28 PM

Necro - Gory Days

That is hilarious. How that man was able to make a career based on rapping about the most vulgar shit ever, I will never understand

SgtD

11-28-2007, 03:01 AM

bootlegs are one thing, trading stuff that is easily commercially available isn't cool.
maybe it's not cool, but come on, i'm not trying to cash in, bootlegging them. if people want to purchase an official product because of the obvious advantages(booklets, packaging etc.) they will. i know i buy everything i like. by now, nobody was interested in the official dvds i have anyway, people want the obscure stuff. I just listed everything i have, because I would be interested in trading dvds in return of dvds.

xsecx

11-28-2007, 08:33 AM

maybe it's not cool, but come on, i'm not trying to cash in, bootlegging them. if people want to purchase an official product because of the obvious advantages(booklets, packaging etc.) they will. i know i buy everything i like. by now, nobody was interested in the official dvds i have anyway, people want the obscure stuff. I just listed everything i have, because I would be interested in trading dvds in return of dvds.

but you are attempting to profit in means of trade of pirating something that's easily available. The point being, that trading things that are either impossible to find to buy or not even available to buy is one thing, pirating things that are easy to find and buy, is an ass thing to do, especially when you're helping to take money out of the hands of the folks who made then, and the kick backs they have to pay the members of the bands in them.

SgtD

11-28-2007, 09:20 AM

but you are attempting to profit in means of trade of pirating something that's easily available. The point being, that trading things that are either impossible to find to buy or not even available to buy is one thing, pirating things that are easy to find and buy, is an ass thing to do, especially when you're helping to take money out of the hands of the folks who made then, and the kick backs they have to pay the members of the bands in them.
I know you're right, never said you're not.

xsecx

11-28-2007, 09:23 AM

I know you're right, never said you're not.

then why do it?

D1988

11-28-2007, 09:39 AM

Heres a good website for video's -

http://www.cr00shtube.tv/

SgtD

11-29-2007, 05:10 AM

then why do it?
I would find it more an ass thing to do, if i was trying to sell the rare stuff i have. And i'd like to note, that most of the stuff i have officially, can be downloaded by anyone, and don't tell me that you have never downloaded anything illegally, because i know you have.

xsecx

11-29-2007, 09:16 AM

I would find it more an ass thing to do, if i was trying to sell the rare stuff i have. And i'd like to note, that most of the stuff i have officially, can be downloaded by anyone, and don't tell me that you have never downloaded anything illegally, because i know you have.

So here's the point, you know it's an ass thing to do, but you are going to still do it. I've never downloaded and distributed anything from bands I actually like and care about.

SgtD

11-30-2007, 06:50 AM

So here's the point, you know it's an ass thing to do, but you are going to still do it. I've never downloaded and distributed anything from bands I actually like and care about.
I don't want to play dirty here.

Instead, I'll go with I'm the worse person in hardcore ever, for putting up trades (of which nobody gives a fuck about anyway). Even though, it's up to the others who want those official stuff, it's their conscious, if they want mine, instead an official copy with all the advantages it's their choice. Everybody can choose for themselves.

xsecx

11-30-2007, 07:09 AM

I don't want to play dirty here.

Instead, I'll go with I'm the worse person in hardcore ever, for putting up trades (of which nobody gives a fuck about anyway). Even though, it's up to the others who want those official stuff, it's their conscious, if they want mine, instead an official copy with all the advantages it's their choice. Everybody can choose for themselves.

Play dirty. Point out where I've done what you've done. Where am I putting up dvd's for trade? I can only guess that you're going to try and say because I've downloaded mp3's. I would point out the following. I've never kept anything from a band that I liked that I didn't buy and also a video isn't like an mp3. People don't sample video's to see if they like a band or not.

Instead, continue to do something you know is wrong. Just make sure you don't write any lyrics about doing what's right or standing up for what you believe in and if you guys ever get big enough ,don't get upset for anyone bootlegging your shit. It's about living in line with your own professed beliefs.

SgtD

11-30-2007, 09:04 AM

Play dirty. Point out where I've done what you've done. Where am I putting up dvd's for trade? I can only guess that you're going to try and say because I've downloaded mp3's. I would point out the following. I've never kept anything from a band that I liked that I didn't buy and also a video isn't like an mp3. People don't sample video's to see if they like a band or not.

Instead, continue to do something you know is wrong. Just make sure you don't write any lyrics about doing what's right or standing up for what you believe in and if you guys ever get big enough ,don't get upset for anyone bootlegging your shit. It's about living in line with your own professed beliefs.
Identity Crisis. you told me that there are scanned versions of comic books, -of which i had no knowledge about-, and how to download them, even though they were in print, and illegal to download. however, it's not hardcore related, but following your logic, it's an ass thing to download those too. this is the same in my book as willing to trade official releases, because you got me to get an illegal copy of those comics, even though you didn't take part of the duplication.

By the way, my band brought about 40 cds on our 3 shows mini tour to the checz republic, that contained all of the yet unreleased studio recordings of ours, gave them away for free, and told everyone to copy/dub them. So I assure you, I won't/wouldn't get upset.

xsecx

11-30-2007, 09:16 AM

Identity Crisis. you told me that there are scanned versions of comic books, -of which i had no knowledge about-, and how to download them, even though they were in print, and illegal to download. however, it's not hardcore related, but following your logic, it's an ass thing to download those too. this is the same in my book as willing to trade official releases, because you got me to get an illegal copy of those comics, even though you didn't take part of the duplication.

and were they easily and readily available for you to buy? The conversation isn't about all forms of piracy being shitty. It's about piracy that effects small independent artists, so how is that the same?

By the way, my band brought about 40 cds on our 3 shows mini tour to the checz republic, that contained all of the yet unreleased studio recordings of ours, gave them away for free, and told everyone to copy/dub them. So I assure you, I won't/wouldn't get upset.

and that's self promotion, that's not anywhere near the same thing.

SgtD

11-30-2007, 09:22 AM

and were they easily and readily available for you to buy? The conversation isn't about all forms of piracy being shitty. It's about piracy that effects small independent artists, so how is that the same?
i think there has to be a way to purchase those. FOllowing your logic, if it's something you care about, you're helping to take money out of the hands of the folks who made them.

and that's self promotion, that's not anywhere near the same thing
self promotion, correct. but it's still taking money out of our own pockets, and bootlegging and encourageing to bootleg our own "art" so there's that. I couldn't give a fuck about 40 people getting our records illegally, and then make copies of those. it's the same thing exactly.

xsecx

11-30-2007, 09:30 AM

i think there has to be a way to purchase those. FOllowing your logic, if it's something you care about, you're helping to take money out of the hands of the folks who made them.

following my logic, this wouldn't even apply, since you're in a completely different market and most likely couldn't have bought them. now, how is it the same? What small independent artists were hurt?

self promotion, correct. but it's still taking money out of our own pockets, and bootlegging and encourageing to bootleg our own "art" so there's that. I couldn't give a fuck about 40 people getting our records illegally, and then make copies of those. it's the same thing exactly.

how is it taking money out of your own pockets when you just said it wasn't released yet? So you don't care if you make any of your money back? You didn't do it so people could hear you? Are you planning on always giving them away then?

SgtD

12-04-2007, 06:15 AM

following my logic, this wouldn't even apply, since you're in a completely different market and most likely couldn't have bought them. now, how is it the same? What small independent artists were hurt?

so it's not an ass thing when it's not independent artists who you "steal" from? yes, or no answer please.

how is it taking money out of your own pockets when you just said it wasn't released yet? So you don't care if you make any of your money back? You didn't do it so people could hear you? Are you planning on always giving them away then?
It hasn't been released yet, and this points to that people won't buy the records when they come out, because they have those songs already (plus a few which haven't and probably will never see the light of day)
It's kind of sad to see that you enjoy getting into debates. this had nothing to do with my band. you have the talent to drag it into the arguement calling me a hypocrite.

xsecx

12-04-2007, 08:56 AM

so it's not an ass thing when it's not independent artists who you "steal" from? yes, or no answer please.

sure as soon as you answer my question how it's the same situation, since your question implies that it is with you ever stating why you think so.

It hasn't been released yet, and this points to that people won't buy the records when they come out, because they have those songs already (plus a few which haven't and probably will never see the light of day)
It's kind of sad to see that you enjoy getting into debates. this had nothing to do with my band. you have the talent to drag it into the arguement calling me a hypocrite.

So how you treat other bands material doesn't have any bearing on how you should handle your own? You shouldn't live in accordance to your own actions or do those actions only matter when you're talking about yourself?

SgtD

12-05-2007, 04:52 AM

sure as soon as you answer my question how it's the same situation, since your question implies that it is with you ever stating why you think so.

I just wanted a yes or no. It's the same situation, you're getting something from someone for free, without paying for it. There you go, I answered, but now i want a yes or a no to the above question.

So how you treat other bands material doesn't have any bearing on how you should handle your own? You shouldn't live in accordance to your own actions or do those actions only matter when you're talking about yourself?

I live in complete accordance to my actions, just like i wrote above. I don't expect everyone to purchase my music, who likes it, and that's something I think sane musicians would agree with, at least in the independent music scene we are part of. I don't see any contradiction here.

xsecx

12-05-2007, 07:53 AM

I just wanted a yes or no. It's the same situation, you're getting something from someone for free, without paying for it. There you go, I answered, but now i want a yes or a no to the above question.

I know you do, but your assumption isn't correct. You're saying that all forms of piracy are the same, when you know full well that my statements to this point and forever on this topic is that piracy isn't black and white like your statement wants to believe. So you think it's the same if anyone downloads anything, regardless of situation? Are you going to say that stealing from a corporation and stealing from independent labels and bands is the same?

I live in complete accordance to my actions, just like i wrote above. I don't expect everyone to purchase my music, who likes it, and that's something I think sane musicians would agree with, at least in the independent music scene we are part of. I don't see any contradiction here.
so you don't get paid for shows and you don't plan on selling your music at all? The fact that you do expect ANYONE to purchase your music means your living in contradiction.

SgtD

12-06-2007, 04:29 AM

I know you do, but your assumption isn't correct. You're saying that all forms of piracy are the same, when you know full well that my statements to this point and forever on this topic is that piracy isn't black and white like your statement wants to believe. So you think it's the same if anyone downloads anything, regardless of situation? Are you going to say that stealing from a corporation and stealing from independent labels and bands is the same?
it's the same in the vein it is getting stuff for free, aka stealing. would you shoplift from a tesco then? would that be ok?

so you don't get paid for shows and you don't plan on selling your music at all? The fact that you do expect ANYONE to purchase your music means your living in contradiction.
no Dusty. The fact, that i don't have different expectations than my actions from people means i don't live in contradiction.

straightXed

12-06-2007, 09:03 AM

no Dusty. The fact, that i don't have different expectations than my actions from people means i don't live in contradiction.

So where do you stand on copyrights? If your band was doing well would you be happy if all your recorded material gained you no income because someone took it upon themselves to distribute all what you record for there own personal gain whilst you didn't get a penny? I mean whilst giving demos out for free is a great way to gain popularity once popularity is gained the income becomes a bit more vital. And lets not forget that whilst you chose to give away your demos the people involved in the videos you are posting about didn't express that they were happy for you to do this, so you made the choice for them.

Perhaps you really see no problem with it and you are happy to have it done to yourself but that doesn't mean others want it done to them does it?

xsecx

12-06-2007, 10:03 AM

it's the same in the vein it is getting stuff for free, aka stealing. would you shoplift from a tesco then? would that be ok?

same vein doesn't make it the same. Shoplifting from tesco isn't the same as shoplifting from a small independent shop. It would also depend on the reasons for shoplifting. Of course, that doesn't really apply since we were talking about downloading something you most likely couldn't have bought if you wanted to, vs distributing something you could.

no Dusty. The fact, that i don't have different expectations than my actions from people means i don't live in contradiction.

because unless you don't charge for anything you do musically, you're being a hypocrite. You are making your choice for yourself whether or not you give it out for free. If other people make that choice for you, I don't think you'd be that happy when and if it starts affecting your ability to pay for doing music.

SgtD

12-12-2007, 05:07 AM

So where do you stand on copyrights? If your band was doing well would you be happy if all your recorded material gained you no income because someone took it upon themselves to distribute all what you record for there own personal gain whilst you didn't get a penny? I mean whilst giving demos out for free is a great way to gain popularity once popularity is gained the income becomes a bit more vital. And lets not forget that whilst you chose to give away your demos the people involved in the videos you are posting about didn't express that they were happy for you to do this, so you made the choice for them.

Perhaps you really see no problem with it and you are happy to have it done to yourself but that doesn't mean others want it done to them does it?
yeah, i totally understand that. as i pointed out before: musicians expect that some would get their music illegally. that's all

SgtD

12-12-2007, 05:18 AM

same vein doesn't make it the same. Shoplifting from tesco isn't the same as shoplifting from a small independent shop. It would also depend on the reasons for shoplifting. Of course, that doesn't really apply since we were talking about downloading something you most likely couldn't have bought if you wanted to, vs distributing something you could.
stealing is stealing. stealing from tesco is better than stealing from a small independent shop, because as far as i know tesco has shoplifting calculated into their costs as well as damage of goods. but still, it's stealing isn't it?

because unless you don't charge for anything you do musically, you're being a hypocrite. You are making your choice for yourself whether or not you give it out for free. If other people make that choice for you, I don't think you'd be that happy when and if it starts affecting your ability to pay for doing music.
ok, tell me how is it being a hypocrite, if i said i don't have any other expectations than the ones towards me. everybody knows that there will be illegal copies no matter what genre. it's taken into account.

straightXed

12-12-2007, 11:04 AM

yeah, i totally understand that. as i pointed out before: musicians expect that some would get their music illegally. that's all

Not really sure if you answered my question, are you saying because people are prepared to commit the crime people should accept that and be ok with it? Saying musicians expect it doesn't seem to answer the questions i asked about where you stand on it. I mean its clear they don't want you to steal and distribute their stuff if there are copyrights in place, they may expect people to try to steal it but its a farcry from condoning it and what i'm really unsure of is where you stand. Are you of the opinion that its ok because others do it and its expected? Or do you feel that artists, particularly independant artists, should be supported considering that sales of products they produce are more vital to their income.

I notice you arguing that stealing is stealing regardless whilst happily ignoring contributing factors to the severity of the act. Yes stealing is stealing but where and what you steal and from whom certainlt does give enough scope to make one act quite a contrast from another act.

And what you say about there being downloads regardless of the genre...well i was hoping you'd answer the initial questions of my post to clear that up. Because if you are actually happy for people to steal from you without your permission then sure its not exactly hypocritical to steal from others and think its ok - its simply just erronous. But i can't see why anyone would be happy about being stolen from. And of course, if you are ok with people stealing from you then why would you copyright it, it seems obvious that people copyright things for safety because they don't want it stollen. So even if you are happy to have it done to you it remains that you are making a choice for others based on your personal standards, a choice that isn't up to you to make. I mean basically your opinions on theft make no difference on the matter as there has already been a stance established with the copyright. And to be honest i don't think, if you were in a position where income from record sales was something you counted on, you would feel the same way, perhaps i'm wrong but i think it would change things and highlight the hipocritical slant here.

SgtD

12-18-2007, 08:31 AM

Not really sure if you answered my question, are you saying because people are prepared to commit the crime people should accept that and be ok with it? Saying musicians expect it doesn't seem to answer the questions i asked about where you stand on it. I mean its clear they don't want you to steal and distribute their stuff if there are copyrights in place, they may expect people to try to steal it but its a farcry from condoning it and what i'm really unsure of is where you stand. Are you of the opinion that its ok because others do it and its expected? Or do you feel that artists, particularly independant artists, should be supported considering that sales of products they produce are more vital to their income.

I notice you arguing that stealing is stealing regardless whilst happily ignoring contributing factors to the severity of the act. Yes stealing is stealing but where and what you steal and from whom certainlt does give enough scope to make one act quite a contrast from another act.

And what you say about there being downloads regardless of the genre...well i was hoping you'd answer the initial questions of my post to clear that up. Because if you are actually happy for people to steal from you without your permission then sure its not exactly hypocritical to steal from others and think its ok - its simply just erronous. But i can't see why anyone would be happy about being stolen from. And of course, if you are ok with people stealing from you then why would you copyright it, it seems obvious that people copyright things for safety because they don't want it stollen. So even if you are happy to have it done to you it remains that you are making a choice for others based on your personal standards, a choice that isn't up to you to make. I mean basically your opinions on theft make no difference on the matter as there has already been a stance established with the copyright. And to be honest i don't think, if you were in a position where income from record sales was something you counted on, you would feel the same way, perhaps i'm wrong but i think it would change things and highlight the hipocritical slant here.
inependent artists should be supported by their products being purchased for sure. i do my best, and try and get everything i own unofficially replaced by the originals, be it records, cds or dvds, but i am selfish enough to have it unofficially, so i can enjoy them.

You're right, if my income was from merch and record sales, i would not feel the same way, but i would still be fully aware that it was out of my control, that a kid somewhere trades our releases, and i think i would be ok with it. it's just common sense.

I read a story on another board, that someone was sporting an embrace shirt which was a bootleg, and there was Ian MacKaye, and he spotted it, and when the guy apologized, that it's not an official, he just said in a friendly manner, that it's a cool shirt, don't worry about it. I know it's not a completely same situation, and that Ian gets his income not only from embrace related sales, but i can't think of any hardcore band that would try and sue me or even look down on me because i wanted to trade some of their releases. of course they would not be happy about it, and while it's a lame thing to pull off.
my main goal with this was get rare unofficial footage of the bands i love, and listed the official stuff just for the heck of it, maybe that's something somebody is looking for.
also note, that i would be the happiest person alive if i could purchase each and every release of every band i like, and i know full well, i'm not the only one on this board with burned cd-s, downloaded mp3s dubbed tapes and the likes. maybe even you have a single album in mp3 format opposed to it being available for you.

if you'd like to continue and dissect my posts, analyze them and ask counter-questions, just for the sake of arguing, please do so. if you actually wanted to understand my thoughts and stance on this, i think you already could have succeeded.

straightXed

12-18-2007, 12:56 PM

inependent artists should be supported by their products being purchased for sure. i do my best, and try and get everything i own unofficially replaced by the originals, be it records, cds or dvds, but i am selfish enough to have it unofficially, so i can enjoy them.

You're right, if my income was from merch and record sales, i would not feel the same way, but i would still be fully aware that it was out of my control, that a kid somewhere trades our releases, and i think i would be ok with it. it's just common sense.

I read a story on another board, that someone was sporting an embrace shirt which was a bootleg, and there was Ian MacKaye, and he spotted it, and when the guy apologized, that it's not an official, he just said in a friendly manner, that it's a cool shirt, don't worry about it. I know it's not a completely same situation, and that Ian gets his income not only from embrace related sales, but i can't think of any hardcore band that would try and sue me or even look down on me because i wanted to trade some of their releases. of course they would not be happy about it, and while it's a lame thing to pull off.
my main goal with this was get rare unofficial footage of the bands i love, and listed the official stuff just for the heck of it, maybe that's something somebody is looking for.
also note, that i would be the happiest person alive if i could purchase each and every release of every band i like, and i know full well, i'm not the only one on this board with burned cd-s, downloaded mp3s dubbed tapes and the likes. maybe even you have a single album in mp3 format opposed to it being available for you.

if you'd like to continue and dissect my posts, analyze them and ask counter-questions, just for the sake of arguing, please do so. if you actually wanted to understand my thoughts and stance on this, i think you already could have succeeded.

Well i still don't understand how you don't see the contradiction and i will continue for the sake of hilighting that not for the sake of arguing at all. But its nice to know why you think i make posts and discuss points in them - it certainly shows that you think its simply argumentative banter and not in the vain of testing points rasied and questioning ideas that seem to be flawed in someway. It seems like you are feeling somewhat persecuted and perhaps thats why you haven't fully addressed the points i have raised, well i am sorry you feel that way but the truth remains that whilst i understand your thoughts i believe them to be flawed and that is as much sucess as i have had thus far.

It like you saying if your income were from merch etc. you would feel differently about it and then say you would be ok with it - the point is if you are ok with that then would you be ok if it happened more and more until it became impossible for the band to continue as it simply wasn't financially viable. Saying you are ok with it is all well and good but where do you draw the line?

I also think its important to remember that we are discussing the items for trade that are readily available so your main goal isn't under scrutiny at all its the "just for the heck of it" stuff that is readily available in question.

And for the record pretty much all my music is in MP3 format but thats because i wanted all my cd's available to me with less bother and i have some rare things that are way out of print that aren't original but this again really misses the point. Its about taken products that can be bought and distributing knock offs for your own benifit - nigel!

So it seems you are discussing different things to myself but i will say i know a fair few bands that would frown upon your ideas here, sure a lot won't care but just because they don't care isn't a green light, i mean someone has to care enough to see fault in it surely? But you are right you don't have to worry about being sued so its ok!

SgtD

12-19-2007, 05:09 AM

Well i still don't understand how you don't see the contradiction and i will continue for the sake of hilighting that not for the sake of arguing at all. But its nice to know why you think i make posts and discuss points in them - it certainly shows that you think its simply argumentative banter and not in the vain of testing points rasied and questioning ideas that seem to be flawed in someway. It seems like you are feeling somewhat persecuted and perhaps thats why you haven't fully addressed the points i have raised, well i am sorry you feel that way but the truth remains that whilst i understand your thoughts i believe them to be flawed and that is as much sucess as i have had thus far.
perhaps the reasons i haven't fully adressed the points has to do with your assumptions.

It like you saying if your income were from merch etc. you would feel differently about it and then say you would be ok with it - the point is if you are ok with that then would you be ok if it happened more and more until it became impossible for the band to continue as it simply wasn't financially viable. Saying you are ok with it is all well and good but where do you draw the line?
why wouldn't i feel differently? i wouldn't be the same person, everything would be different around me, but still, i wouldn't expect everybody to purchase my stuff.
have you been to a hardcore show where everyone bought something from the merch table?

I also think its important to remember that we are discussing the items for trade that are readily available so your main goal isn't under scrutiny at all its the "just for the heck of it" stuff that is readily available in question.
i know what we are discussing.

And for the record pretty much all my music is in MP3 format but thats because i wanted all my cd's available to me with less bother and i have some rare things that are way out of print that aren't original but this again really misses the point. Its about taken products that can be bought and distributing knock offs for your own benifit - nigel!
so if you have unofficially purchased a single mp3, isn't that the same? it's stealing something you could easily purchase from a band, leaving the band without income. don't you think that's hypocricy?
i don't get the nigel reference. the best i could find is "to be alone, to have no friends.
Unlike loners, nigels do not CHOOSE to be alone."

So it seems you are discussing different things to myself but i will say i know a fair few bands that would frown upon your ideas here, sure a lot won't care but just because they don't care isn't a green light, i mean someone has to care enough to see fault in it surely?
i still think it's better, to trade stuff than for example to download an album, or even upload it if it's available. i know it's still getting money out of their pocket indirectly though, but it's a two side story. if somebody wanted to order xyz dvd, they will, if they didn't find it that important, they would go with the torrent sites, or would trade with me with the well known disadvantages of the knock off.

But you are right you don't have to worry about being sued so its ok!
way to twist my reply.

straightXed

12-19-2007, 10:42 AM

perhaps the reasons i haven't fully adressed the points has to do with your assumptions.

Which assumptions are they?

why wouldn't i feel differently? i wouldn't be the same person, everything would be different around me, but still, i wouldn't expect everybody to purchase my stuff.
have you been to a hardcore show where everyone bought something from the merch table?

I didn't say you you wouldn't feel differently but the point you seemed to miss here was the contrast between you feeling differently about people stealing your income and saying you'd be ok with it. Everyone buying from a merch table has absoloutley nothing to do with it.

i know what we are discussing.

well try and keep on topic then, the tangents ignore what we are discussing.

so if you have unofficially purchased a single mp3, isn't that the same? it's stealing something you could easily purchase from a band, leaving the band without income. don't you think that's hypocricy?

you mean if someone buys a single mp3 that is is illigitimate? Yes thats partly the same, of course we are talking about the person that distributes that said mp3. Not sure where you are pointing to when you speak of hypocracy?

i don't get the nigel reference. the best i could find is "to be alone, to have no friends.
Unlike loners, nigels do not CHOOSE to be alone."

I guess it was lost on you, but you are a knock off nigel! Its an advertising campaign here.

i still think it's better, to trade stuff than for example to download an album, or even upload it if it's available. i know it's still getting money out of their pocket indirectly though, but it's a two side story. if somebody wanted to order xyz dvd, they will, if they didn't find it that important, they would go with the torrent sites, or would trade with me with the well known disadvantages of the knock off.

Its not really up to you though, if something is copyrighted its really not up to you to decide how that should be distributed. If people have an option of paying less or nothing then that might be the deciding factor, you are making that choice possible when the premise of copyrighting material is to make a product available on conditions agreed by the owners of the product. So whilst you think its ok the fact is its really not the point, if people don't think its important enough to pay the price asked by the owners then there shouldn't be an option to get it for free. I accept that the option is there but it doesn't make it ok.

way to twist my reply.

So why mention the idea that you won't be being sued, i mean surely the idea that they won't sue you is like them condoning it? Or perhaps you are saying its completely isignificant to them? Or perhaps that enough people do it to make it something hard or immpossible to combat?

SgtD

12-28-2007, 08:06 AM

Which assumptions are they?

It seems like you are feeling somewhat persecuted and perhaps thats why you haven't fully addressed the points i have raised, well i am sorry you feel that way

I didn't say you you wouldn't feel differently but the point you seemed to miss here was the contrast between you feeling differently about people stealing your income and saying you'd be ok with it. Everyone buying from a merch table has absoloutley nothing to do with it.
if you read my comment closely: yes, i wouldn't expect everybody to purchase my stuff

well try and keep on topic then, the tangents ignore what we are discussing.
Ja Wohl!

you mean if someone buys a single mp3 that is is illigitimate? Yes thats partly the same, of course we are talking about the person that distributes that said mp3. Not sure where you are pointing to when you speak of hypocracy?
getting stuff for free instead of purchasing it is getting stuff for free, no matter downloading or trading. when trading, the difference is you give something for the desired things.

Its not really up to you though, if something is copyrighted its really not up to you to decide how that should be distributed. If people have an option of paying less or nothing then that might be the deciding factor, you are making that choice possible when the premise of copyrighting material is to make a product available on conditions agreed by the owners of the product. So whilst you think its ok the fact is its really not the point, if people don't think its important enough to pay the price asked by the owners then there shouldn't be an option to get it for free. I accept that the option is there but it doesn't make it ok.
bottom line?

So why mention the idea that you won't be being sued, i mean surely the idea that they won't sue you is like them condoning it? Or perhaps you are saying its completely isignificant to them? Or perhaps that enough people do it to make it something hard or immpossible to combat?
do you feel so? it's interesting how you made that conclusion from highlighting a figure of speech of my comment, that's surrounding is just as important.

straightXed

12-28-2007, 09:00 AM

if you read my comment closely: yes, i wouldn't expect everybody to purchase my stuff

Me using words like "seems" and "perhaps" makes it suggestive and letting you know how what your are saying is appearing to me, its not assumptive as i am not drawing any final conclusion. I am actually trying to illustrate how what you are saying may be being interpreted wrong and inviting you to evaluate or better explain.

And you not expecting everyone to buy your stuff isn't the issue, are you happy for them to steal it? If you are then great for you but thats your decision, its not up to you to make that choice for anyone else.

Ja Wohl!

Thank you

getting stuff for free instead of purchasing it is getting stuff for free, no matter downloading or trading. when trading, the difference is you give something for the desired things.

Oh so you justify it by swapping stolen stuff for stolen stuff?

bottom line?

Yes what you quoted there was pretty much the bottom line of the discussion, did you not understand what i meant?

do you feel so? it's interesting how you made that conclusion from highlighting a figure of speech of my comment, that's surrounding is just as important.

What i found more interesting is that you just quoted 3 questions and answered none. I have made no conclusion as such i have just put forth 3 options of why you mentioned it yet i observe that there may be another unmentioned reason but its seems you aren't exactly forthcoming in sharing that. So its not conclusive but i can't see any other reasoning so i remain inquisitive about it.