Concert Experiences

[xcriterionmasterx]

i figured i would make a thread to ask people what some of the best shows they have ever been to are, and what made them the best. i think it will be fun and interesting, especially since hardcore shows can get pretty nuts, but they don't all have to be hardcore shows, i guess.

please tell me if there is another thread like this somewhere. i will let someone else go first.

[xGriffox]

converge/shai hulud/modern life is war/with honor/zombie apocalypse/municipal waste/the distance/sub zero

all in one show back in '05.

[xJoeyNormalx]

Sick of it All a few years ago...because it's Sick of it All.

Seeing Madball play in the tiny back room of a record store in Hamilton. Crazy seeing them in such a small venue. Kids went nuts.

And, for entirely different reasons: Seeing Shepherds the Weak and a bunch of other local bands in Hong Kong two years ago. I was struck by how friendly and welcoming the people were, how I was just the random guilo fucker in town for a week, but everyone welcomed me, had dinner with me, played basketball between bands and were just generally some of the nicest people I've met through this stuff. Especially Riz from King Ly Chee...just because of an introduction from a friend of mine who'd taught English over there, he went out of his way to meet me, show me where to buy local music, took me to a show, introduced me to everyone...

[rodrigo]

we dont get many big bands over here, so when sick of it all came, it was the most awesome show ever

EVER!

i missed ignite and have heart last year, so maybe one of those was good too

[straightXed]

I think count me out a few years back, right before they called it a day was a really good show. It was just a straight up straightedge hardcore show but it had a really good atmosphere and lots of cool people came out...just good crowd, good music and good times.

[force majeure]

I think prob Verse/To Kill.. even though it was only like a month ago haha..

like there where about 80 people packed into this small room with like a 2ft stage.
there were loads of scene kiddies just standing at the back. but us lot up front had a f*cking wail of a time. the place had a real good atmosphere, full of kids from all over the place there..

[straightXed]

I think prob Verse/To Kill.. even though it was only like a month ago haha..

like there where about 80 people packed into this small room with like a 2ft stage.
there were loads of scene kiddies just standing at the back. but us lot up front had a f*cking wail of a time. the place had a real good atmosphere, full of kids from all over the place there..

Do you think they didn't have a good time at the back then? And it sounds like there were lots of scene kids at the front and the back, right?

[chadfitzy]

x
best show ive been to. mainly because it was my first moshpit and t wasnt to hard for me at the time. i was thrown back and ectended my arms and accidently cought a girls tanktop right in the middle, but she laft. that was a huge relief

[xJoelx]

One of the best shows I have ever been to was this one.
http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/8808/standfirmshowza5.png
xRepresentx, Taste the Steel, Stand Firm, and Domestic War played, not xSucker Punchx. It was at Stand Firm's house in their basement. They called the show Domestic Violence Fest. People brought bats with barbed wire wraped around them and nails sticking out of them and destroyed people. People were just getting killed the entire time. I got knocked out during the show, by a huge kick to the head, my head went straight to the cement. I think it happened during Taste the Steel, but i'm not sure what band was playing, might have been xRepresentx. Their is still blood one the walls from this show.

Another great show was also in Stand Firms basement. I don't even remember who all played. I know Domestic War played like second, then some other band and Bangarang played and Taste the Steel played last. The show was pretty good but nothing special but then once Taste the Steel started playing people just started killing everything in sight. People were just destroying each other nonstop, then about half way through their set someone(I think the lead singer of Stand Firm) grabed this like box of wood and strated smashing people with this one thing from it, and everyone else started grabing stuff and destroying people. Then someone grabed this dudes crutch and threw it and I saw it on the ground and started hitting people with it and broke it in half over someone or something. And then someone knocked the light out in the ceiling, and it was one of those long light bulbs and they just smashes it so there was glass all over the place. Then Taste the Steel played "Dead City", their last song. People just continued killing. And then after that Fear Tradition came on and played one song. It was one of the most insane things ever. Fear Tradition is too good. The show started with like a ton of people and ended with less then half of what it started with.

And probably my favorite, or at least very close to my favorite, show was this one xRepresentx show at Forward Hall. Had an amazing line up. Massacre Outline opened then some other fantastic band, then Neocracy, then She's in Pain, then Stifling Neglect. And they were fucking nuts. Every one of those bands had one of the best pits I have ever been in. Then after them Fear Tradition played two songs. I never even knew a show could get so crazy at the time. Then xRepresentx played last, and what made this show so good was that like after the first song or something a bunch of people brought out a ton a noodles(like for a pool) and silly string and everyone had a noodle and was hitting each other with them the entire time, lol. And everything and everyone in the place was covered in silly string then someone grabed a trash can full of trash and threw it everywhere and trash was all over the place. It was just madness, I saw someone with a samurai sword at some point. Just thinking about that show makes me so happy, definitly the most fun I ever had. xRepresentx shows are the best, lol. If you havn't seen xRepresentx before, i strongly recommend seeing them, you will not be dissapointed.

All that is what goes down during Erie straight edge shows. This Sunday I am going to see Crowd Deterrent, Taste the Steel, Search Bloc, and some other bands. Crowd Deterrent have the most insane shows of all time. Check them out if you don't know who they are, they are one of my favorite bands.
If I am still alive after that show Sunday I will tell you about it. It is going to be one of the best shows ever. If you can get a ride go to it! If you need to know where it is ask me.

[xsecx]

One of the best shows I have ever been to was this one.
http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/8808/standfirmshowza5.png
xRepresentx, Taste the Steel, Stand Firm, and Domestic War played, not xSucker Punchx. It was at Stand Firm's house in their basement. They called the show Domestic Violence Fest. People brought bats with barbed wire wraped around them and nails sticking out of them and destroyed people. People were just getting killed the entire time. I got knocked out during the show, by a huge kick to the head, my head went straight to the cement. I think it happened during Taste the Steel, but i'm not sure what band was playing, might have been xRepresentx. Their is still blood one the walls from this show.


now why exactly would any of that make it a good show? Why even have music playing, just go to an open field and beat the shit out of each other.

[straightXed]

now why exactly would any of that make it a good show? Why even have music playing, just go to an open field and beat the shit out of each other.

And then hopefully be honored by the Darwin awards.

[rodrigo]

now why exactly would any of that make it a good show? Why even have music playing, just go to an open field and beat the shit out of each other.
dumb people like dumb shit

[xJoelx]

now why exactly would any of that make it a good show? Why even have music playing, just go to an open field and beat the shit out of each other.

haha, that makes it fun. What do you do at shows, stand still doing nothing? And without the music it would be pointless, the music is what makes me want to move.

[xJoelx]

dumb people like dumb shit

haha, yeah it seems dumb. But it is a lot of fun.

[straightXed]

haha, yeah it seems dumb. But it is a lot of fun.

Whats fun about being knocked out? Whats fun about bats covered in barbed wire and nails? Whats fun about there being blood all over the walls? I am interested how you conclude it to be fun, i doubt you will make an argument that convinces me that it is fun but i would like to here your reasoning all the same.

[xJoelx]

Whats fun about being knocked out? Whats fun about bats covered in barbed wire and nails? Whats fun about there being blood all over the walls? I am interested how you conclude it to be fun, i doubt you will make an argument that convinces me that it is fun but i would like to here your reasoning all the same.

Yeah, I doubt I could convince you that that is fun, lol. Unless you like a lot of violence at shows. Which im guessing you don't? Or at least don't like getting hurt. But I do like a lot of violence at shows. I think stuff like that makes the shows more fun and more memorable. But definitely aren't for everyone. At least stuff like that isn't for the babies, haha, just kidding ;)

[xsecx]

haha, that makes it fun. What do you do at shows, stand still doing nothing? And without the music it would be pointless, the music is what makes me want to move.

you can dance and not hit people and not propagate bullshit tough guy mentalities. If you want to fight, then just fight. I really don't understand this mindset at all and I never have.

[rodrigo]

Yeah, I doubt I could convince you that that is fun, lol. Unless you like a lot of violence at shows. Which im guessing you don't? Or at least don't like getting hurt. But I do like a lot of violence at shows. I think stuff like that makes the shows more fun and more memorable. But definitely aren't for everyone. At least stuff like that isn't for the babies, haha, just kidding ;)
yeah, its not for babies or smart people, but i doubt its something for or of grown ups, actually its a pretty childish mentality, maybe next time it will be much better with more violence and some of your friends wont even wake up from being knocked out

[mouseman004]

I will have a response to this thread after next saturday when I go see Death Before Dishonor, Madball and Sick of it All!

[xJoelx]

you can dance and not hit people and not propagate bullshit tough guy mentalities. If you want to fight, then just fight. I really don't understand this mindset at all and I never have.

We dont want to fight, we dont want fighting at all. Thats just how we have fun at our shows. We never have any fights. I guess you can dance without hitting people, doesn't matter, a lot of people try it but there is just too many crazy people. But if the pit is to rough for someone, then you go stand in the back.



yeah, its not for babies or smart people, but i doubt its something for or of grown ups, actually its a pretty childish mentality, maybe next time it will be much better with more violence and some of your friends wont even wake up from being knocked out

It's for kids. I guess childish, doesn't matter. Childish things can be fun. Getting knocked out doesn't happen much, but it definitely can at any second, and who knows if you will wake up or not. That is a chance you have to be willing to take.



I will have a response to this thread after next saturday when I go see Death Before Dishonor, Madball and Sick of it All!

Holy shit! You better tell me all about this. It is going to be fucking insane. Such a good line up. Wisdom in Chains opening, they are fucking fantastic. Saw them live once. Death Before Dishonor, i should have seen them live before. They were coming to Erie like 5 days after CDC's last Erie show, at the same venue too. And at the CDC show people were getting smashed through tables and people brought some steel chairs into the pit and one person through a trash can full of dodge balls into the pit and people accedently knocked some of the ceiling out. It was just way to crazy and the venue got destroyed, so the venue stoped having hardcore shows so the Death Before Dishonor show was cancelled. I was SO mad! But anyway, yeah they are amazing. And of course Madball and Sick of it All are the NYHC Kings!
I am going to this show in New York, on Friday. I will also tell you guys how great it was.

[straightXed]

Yeah, I doubt I could convince you that that is fun, lol. Unless you like a lot of violence at shows. Which im guessing you don't? Or at least don't like getting hurt. But I do like a lot of violence at shows. I think stuff like that makes the shows more fun and more memorable. But definitely aren't for everyone. At least stuff like that isn't for the babies, haha, just kidding ;)


So you see violence as a good thing and you like getting hurt? Its one step short of self harm and that paints a pretty sad and insecure picture of you. If you are only able to have fun by being hurt and only find shows memorable if you were hurt then it doesnt say much about the bands playing. And you are right, its not for babies it is for idiots, i mean you do realise you could have died from your head hitting the concrete, how much fun is that?

[straightXed]

We dont want to fight, we dont want fighting at all. Thats just how we have fun at our shows. We never have any fights. I guess you can dance without hitting people, doesn't matter, a lot of people try it but there is just too many crazy people. But if the pit is to rough for someone, then you go stand in the back.

If you don't want fights then why are you bringing bats with barbed wire and nails? If the pit is to rough then there is a problem with the pit, sure people can get hurt at shows but what are talking about is intentional and only fun for thise that are stupid enough to think its a good thing.





It's for kids. I guess childish, doesn't matter. Childish things can be fun. Getting knocked out doesn't happen much, but it definitely can at any second, and who knows if you will wake up or not. That is a chance you have to be willing to take.

That risk should be minimised, people should take others into consideration. Theres no reason for that risk to even be something that is considered at a show, you shouldn't be in a situation thinking well i'd like to dance but i'm very concerned for my own safety. Everyone has a right to be at the show and enjoy it but if your enjoyment stops other people enjoying it then thats selfish and wrong, if you are unable to enjoy it without hurting people or being hurt then you have issues, just because you are willing to risk your life it doesn't and shouldn't make it a risk others need to be willing to take.





Holy shit! You better tell me all about this. It is going to be fucking insane. Such a good line up. Wisdom in Chains opening, they are fucking fantastic. Saw them live once. Death Before Dishonor, i should have seen them live before. They were coming to Erie like 5 days after CDC's last Erie show, at the same venue too. And at the CDC show people were getting smashed through tables and people brought some steel chairs into the pit and one person through a trash can full of dodge balls into the pit and people accedently knocked some of the ceiling out. It was just way to crazy and the venue got destroyed, so the venue stoped having hardcore shows so the Death Before Dishonor show was cancelled. I was SO mad! But anyway, yeah they are amazing. And of course Madball and Sick of it All are the NYHC Kings!
I am going to this show in New York, on Friday. I will also tell you guys how great it was.


Oh great, so you guys act so stupidly that you end up putting venues out of action with what can only be described as really tacky violence that belongs in really tacky wrestling. Why do you need steel chairs to dance? What is the purpose of smashing people through tables? Why would you have a trash can of dodgeballs...you are right, it does make a show memorable but for all the wrong reasons, you hurt people because you are uncapable of enjoying yourself otherwise and you close down venues which stops others enjoying shows. It boils down to this, we're fun, your not.

[D1988]

Seriously dude, this tough guy bullshit is just complete nonesense.

Singing along, pile ons, stagediving, it's all good but actually beating each other up and being deliberately violent at shows is just a complete joke. No matter how anyone tried to explain it I will still think it's one of the stupidest things ever to go on within "hardcore".

The "tough guys" are the same people who beat up people at shows and then afterwards post on their myspace saying how they are all about unity and friendship. These are the same people who trash venues like you say, which then stops other "hardcore" bands from playing there. Those other hardcore bands wanting to play there might actually be playing real hardcore and they are being told they can't play a venue because the previous hardcore kids trashed it. So you can see how that could fuck up a scene. Theres also the fact that less people might go to bands shows in an area because it's full of tough guys beating the shit out of each other, yet again destroying the scene.

Boston Beatdown and the whole Seventh Dagger thing all started and keep this bullshit going. The sooner it fades away the better.

Seriously, if you want to fight just go somewhere and fight, you don't need to fuck up scenes, venues and normal people so you can have a good time. If you want to put nails and barbed wire through peoples skulls thats good for you but take it away from the type of music that you seem to class as "hardcore".

[xJoelx]

If you don't want fights then why are you bringing bats with barbed wire and nails? If the pit is to rough then there is a problem with the pit, sure people can get hurt at shows but what are talking about is intentional and only fun for thise that are stupid enough to think its a good thing.

That risk should be minimised, people should take others into consideration. Theres no reason for that risk to even be something that is considered at a show, you shouldn't be in a situation thinking well i'd like to dance but i'm very concerned for my own safety. Everyone has a right to be at the show and enjoy it but if your enjoyment stops other people enjoying it then thats selfish and wrong, if you are unable to enjoy it without hurting people or being hurt then you have issues, just because you are willing to risk your life it doesn't and shouldn't make it a risk others need to be willing to take.

Oh great, so you guys act so stupidly that you end up putting venues out of action with what can only be described as really tacky violence that belongs in really tacky wrestling. Why do you need steel chairs to dance? What is the purpose of smashing people through tables? Why would you have a trash can of dodgeballs...you are right, it does make a show memorable but for all the wrong reasons, you hurt people because you are uncapable of enjoying yourself otherwise and you close down venues which stops others enjoying shows. It boils down to this, we're fun, your not.

Everyone at the shows WANT it to be as crazy as possible. Everyone knows there going to get destroyed at the show and know what there getting into. Everyone likes this stuff, and no one EVER fights. We somehow are able to just kill each other and enjoy it and not be stupid and fight about it. Even the babies that are in the back scared to death like that the shows are insane as fuck. And know what there getting into. This is what happens at Erie Straight Edge shows. If you don't like it get the fuck out. Come to Erie and go to a show sometime, you will probably have fun.

If you want a "safer" show, we got tons of other shows that are still amazing without killing everyone. I go to shows all the time were everyone if safe, for the most part, and not killing each other. I still have an amazing time, but not as good as a time as I have at more violent shows.

Yeah, CDC already got two venues closed alone. The last two shows they played. I already told you about there last Erie show, and the second to last one was with Taste the Steel, Rhinoceros, and Unit 731 i think. And the show was so insane, everyone was just being way crazy. And people were getting hurt and stuff was getting wrecked and people were doing other stuff your not suposed to. The show got stoped before CDC even got on, but some how they let them play, they gave us one more chance. And CDC just destroyed the place even more. That venue was one of the best, i liked it so much, it was like perfect. Only got to have two shows. Then they stoped. :( But it was worth it!

And you are the one that isn't fun! lol. What bands have you seen live? What are the shows like in your hardcore scene?



Seriously dude, this tough guy bullshit is just complete nonesense.

Singing along, pile ons, stagediving, it's all good but actually beating each other up and being deliberately violent at shows is just a complete joke. No matter how anyone tried to explain it I will still think it's one of the stupidest things ever to go on within "hardcore".

The "tough guys" are the same people who beat up people at shows and then afterwards post on their myspace saying how they are all about unity and friendship. These are the same people who trash venues like you say, which then stops other "hardcore" bands from playing there. Those other hardcore bands wanting to play there might actually be playing real hardcore and they are being told they can't play a venue because the previous hardcore kids trashed it. So you can see how that could fuck up a scene. Theres also the fact that less people might go to bands shows in an area because it's full of tough guys beating the shit out of each other, yet again destroying the scene.

Boston Beatdown and the whole Seventh Dagger thing all started and keep this bullshit going. The sooner it fades away the better.

Seriously, if you want to fight just go somewhere and fight, you don't need to fuck up scenes, venues and normal people so you can have a good time. If you want to put nails and barbed wire through peoples skulls thats good for you but take it away from the type of music that you seem to class as "hardcore".

It's not tough guy bullshit. We aren't actually beating each other up. Well, in a way we are. But any mosh pit is pretty much beating each other. We aren't like doing Fight Club stuff while bands play. We are hardcore dancing. Watch this video, http://youtube.com/watch?v=T7dnWB1BiRA
If that is what tough guys are, then we don't have any. Obviously people are going to seems like tough guys, but there is really no way you can't unless you don't move at all. We are about respecting venues, about it too much if you ask me. But come on, if you book a band like xRepresentx or CDC and leave steel chairs and tables lying all over the place. Stuff is going to get destroyed. Even if that stuff wasn't there im sure stuff would still get destroyed. The venue should just be like, o well. It isn't a big deal. I'll fucking pay for the damage. But this is why im going to open my own venue were anything fucking goes, except smoking and drinking! Im going to give a place that you can just destroy. But we do have a place like this already, Stand Firms basement.
Our scene will never fucking die, we don't need to worry about that. And the only people we need at the show are the people in the pit. Everyone else just stands in the back doing nothing. At least stand up front, you will live.

How could you want those to fade away? Seventh Dagger has some of the best bands ever. xAFBx, is one of the best Straight Edge bands of all time. And xTyrantx, the Miles Between, the Wrath, Rhinocerous, and so many more. They are all amazing. They are hardcore. Go to Seventh Dagger Fest, May 24th & 25th Cincinnati Ohio. That will be a real hardcore show.

We don't want to fight, not at all! We never have any stupid fights, never will. This is our scene, and it is one of the best hardcore scenes ever. We aren't ruining it for anyone, everyone in Erie likes our scene exactly how it is and it will never change. It has been like this since around like 1993/1994. And some of the best Straight Edge bands and Hardcore bands ever have came out of it. To quote xAFBx(but change it up a little bit) You will never know Erie Straight Edge, we will NEVER fall Erie Straight Edge.

[straightXed]

Everyone at the shows WANT it to be as crazy as possible. Everyone knows there going to get destroyed at the show and know what there getting into. Everyone likes this stuff, and no one EVER fights. We somehow are able to just kill each other and enjoy it and not be stupid and fight about it. Even the babies that are in the back scared to death like that the shows are insane as fuck. And know what there getting into. This is what happens at Erie Straight Edge shows. If you don't like it get the fuck out. Come to Erie and go to a show sometime, you will probably have fun.

You are acting idiotic, and just because you are surrounded by other idiots doesn't excuse your actions. You are showing no respect for others who want to go to shows and you even refer to people who don't want to be batted and beaten as babies. You show complete ignorance and seem more interested in sounding tough, saying "if you don't like it get the fuck out" just shows how you are incapable of having fun alongside normal people. Everyone should be able to dance or sing along at the show instead of feeling to scared to get anywhere near the front or even to scared to attend the show. Your whole sentiment is "if they don't like violence like me then they aren't welcome" and that really sucks. All you have done so far is sound stupid and make erie sound like a terrible place to play.



If you want a "safer" show, we got tons of other shows that are still amazing without killing everyone. I go to shows all the time were everyone if safe, for the most part, and not killing each other. I still have an amazing time, but not as good as a time as I have at more violent shows.

Yeah but the point about the "safer" shows is everyone enjoys themselves, not just you and your selfish meat head friends.


Yeah, CDC already got two venues closed alone. The last two shows they played. I already told you about there last Erie show, and the second to last one was with Taste the Steel, Rhinoceros, and Unit 731 i think. And the show was so insane, everyone was just being way crazy. And people were getting hurt and stuff was getting wrecked and people were doing other stuff your not suposed to. The show got stoped before CDC even got on, but some how they let them play, they gave us one more chance. And CDC just destroyed the place even more. That venue was one of the best, i liked it so much, it was like perfect. Only got to have two shows. Then they stoped. :( But it was worth it!

Are you that stupid you can't see why ruining venues is a completely retarded thing to do? Its like shitting on your own sofa. You are seriously the type of person i really think of as a waste of oxygen.


And you are the one that isn't fun! lol. What bands have you seen live? What are the shows like in your hardcore scene?

How am i not fun? Did you even get the reference? I've seen plenty of bands, to many to mention. The shows in my local scene are always fun, no one brings bats to act tough to make up for everything else they lack, barbed wire and nails usually remain in the hardware store also. People always enjoy themselves and we avoid segregation based on stupidity and violence, people dance hard and enjoy it, others stand around and enjoy it. Everyone is aware of everyone else and no one intentionally causes harm because thats dumb, if someone wants to sing along then they are welcome up the front, we don't have the ridiculous mind set that in order to be up front you need to be tough or prove yourself in the pit somehow. Basically its fun for everyone and our venues stay open. So it stands true, we're fun, your not!





It's not tough guy bullshit. We aren't actually beating each other up. Well, in a way we are. But any mosh pit is pretty much beating each other. We aren't like doing Fight Club stuff while bands play. We are hardcore dancing. Watch this video, http://youtube.com/watch?v=T7dnWB1BiRA
If that is what tough guys are, then we don't have any. Obviously people are going to seems like tough guys, but there is really no way you can't unless you don't move at all. We are about respecting venues, about it too much if you ask me.

Your actions tell a very different tale, you don't sound respectful at all. And please tell me how exactly is bringing bats with nails in, putting people through tables and getting blood all up the wall not tough guy bullshit. Sounds like you are backpedaling because you don't like the negative association with tough guy bullshit.


But come on, if you book a band like xRepresentx or CDC and leave steel chairs and tables lying all over the place. Stuff is going to get destroyed. Even if that stuff wasn't there im sure stuff would still get destroyed. The venue should just be like, o well. It isn't a big deal. I'll fucking pay for the damage.

wow, you get dumber the more you type are you having a laugh here or are you serious? Are you telling me the band and crowd are so unstable and problematic that everything needs to be locked away or nailed down because otherwise they will destroy it? It really is stupidity in its rawest form right here. It is a big deal and its not about paying for the damage, how to you pay for the damage you made by representing hardcore in such a poor manner? Venues end up with policies of not booking hardcore acts based on that, other venues hear about situations and you basically ruin everyones fun by being a dick who can't enjoy yourself without battering your friends.


But this is why im going to open my own venue were anything fucking goes, except smoking and drinking! Im going to give a place that you can just destroy. But we do have a place like this already, Stand Firms basement.

You understand violence breeds more violence right? As much as you all enjoy it it doesn't take much for it to go to far, i mean shit, you are using weapons, where do you draw the line?



Our scene will never fucking die, we don't need to worry about that. And the only people we need at the show are the people in the pit. Everyone else just stands in the back doing nothing. At least stand up front, you will live.

Again you show no respect for anyone not in the pit, how is there support not important, they help pay for the band too yet you are all self absorbed and think the only thing that matters is in the pit. You tell them to stand up front while you are all wrecking the place, using bats with nails and steel chairs...have you ever wondered for a second that could be a large part of the reason they stay at the back? You are basically the chavs of hardcore, you are anti social, ignorant, disrespectful, violent and selfish.


How could you want those to fade away? Seventh Dagger has some of the best bands ever. xAFBx, is one of the best Straight Edge bands of all time. And xTyrantx, the Miles Between, the Wrath, Rhinocerous, and so many more. They are all amazing. They are hardcore. Go to Seventh Dagger Fest, May 24th & 25th Cincinnati Ohio. That will be a real hardcore show.

Lack of values and sensibility, a fascination with violence and basically a huge blemish on real hardcore, hardcore would be better off without all the seventh dagger stuff. The bands are boring and have nothing valued or positive to bring to the table and are far from being regarded as being among the best bands. So that poor contribution is probably most people here would prefer them to fade away.


We don't want to fight, not at all! We never have any stupid fights, never will. This is our scene, and it is one of the best hardcore scenes ever. We aren't ruining it for anyone, everyone in Erie likes our scene exactly how it is and it will never change. It has been like this since around like 1993/1994. And some of the best Straight Edge bands and Hardcore bands ever have came out of it. To quote xAFBx(but change it up a little bit) You will never know Erie Straight Edge, we will NEVER fall Erie Straight Edge.

Well you are ruining it for people, people who may never get involved because of the dynamics of your scene, most people aren't looking to play violent games, they want to be a part of something positive...you've already got people at the back instead of at the front, you really can't see how you come of to others can you? You will attract more and more of the same type of people with the same mindset but you are limiting diversity which is really shitty. Lots and lots of people that really enjoy and belong in hardcore are simply turned off by your brand of hardcore, i'm sure all of this is lost on you and you are completely convinced that seventh dagger is great and violence rules and it has no detrimental effect whatsoever but maybe someone else will read this and gain from it. I hope so.

[D1988]

Superb post Ed, I can't really add anymore to it, except this.

Seventh Dagger have not put out some of the best bands ever, I have never heard anything as ridiculous as that in my entire life. Metal bands claiming to play hardcore, and when people see the bullshit these type of bands cause they associate ALL hardcore with the same thing. They do nothing for hardcore except ruin it and make it look dumb.

I have learned a lesson from your tough guy bullshit though, don't go to shows in Erie.

[xJoelx]

I don't know, I always thought that violence made shows great. Thats how our scene has always been(straight edge scene) and just how it is. Thats what everyone likes, and thats what I have come to like. Bands seem to want it too, not just local bands. They always say stuff like "destroy this place", "fuck this place up", "crowd war"(CDC song), "no rules in the mosh zone", etc. I always thought thats how shows were everywhere and how they are supposed to be. Bands like it when we are crazy like that, and they keep coming back and we keep getting more. Maybe my thoughts would be way different if I lived where you do.
By the way, not all our shows are like this. Just certain ones are. We have an amazing(more positive) scene as well. We even got some "posi" bands.

And I can't believe you guys don't like Seventh Dagger and those bands!? Metal bands??? Nice try. Some of those bands are the most pure hardcore bands ever. Have you guys listened to xAFBx? They have some of the best straight edge lyrics ever! Listen to "Jumping Ships" and tell me what you think and why. I know they aren't hardcore like Minor Threat, but they are more hardcore punk. xAFBx is hardcore.

[D1988]

And I can't believe you guys don't like Seventh Dagger and those bands!? Metal bands??? Nice try. Some of those bands are the most pure hardcore bands ever. Have you guys listened to xAFBx? They have some of the best straight edge lyrics ever! Listen to "Jumping Ships" and tell me what you think and why. I know they aren't hardcore like Minor Threat, but they are more hardcore punk. xAFBx is hardcore.

No.

Minor Threat are a hardcore punk band. xAFBx are a band playing metal, screaming about straight edge and trying to pass it as hardcore.

You should watch the American Hardcore movie and actually see where real hardcore began and what the bands were like then. If you listen to xAFBx and then listen to Metallica or Slayer you can see far more similarities than you ever could if you compared xAFBx to Minor Threat, SSD or Bad Brains or something. Stop fooling yourself.

[straightXed]

I don't know, I always thought that violence made shows great. Thats how our scene has always been(straight edge scene) and just how it is. Thats what everyone likes, and thats what I have come to like.

You keep saying thats how everyone likes it yet the only people i think you are thinking about there is the ones that are active in these shows, the violence makes it exclusive and you are unable to represent the large amount of people that think violence at shows is shitty.


Bands seem to want it too, not just local bands. They always say stuff like "destroy this place", "fuck this place up", "crowd war"(CDC song), "no rules in the mosh zone", etc. I always thought thats how shows were everywhere and how they are supposed to be.

Theres two camps on this, some decent bands will say things to get the crowd amped but are not speaking literally, and then theres your tough guy bands that churn out lots of sayings like that and are more literal. Of course the same goes for the crowd, some kids just take it too literally, however phrases like "no rules in the mosh zone", well thats just purely dumb and helps explain why theres a bunch of daft idiots bringing bats to the show. Many decent hardcore bands will speak out against the level of violence way before it reaches stupid levels that you have, theres nothing wrong with dancing hard and enjoying yourself but you have to be aware of others and take their enjoyment of the show into consideration as well.



Bands like it when we are crazy like that, and they keep coming back and we keep getting more. Maybe my thoughts would be way different if I lived where you do.
By the way, not all our shows are like this. Just certain ones are. We have an amazing(more positive) scene as well. We even got some "posi" bands.

This just highlights how you are making certain shows exclusive, but whats the plan here anyway, to systematically close down venues and continue to have a negative effect on the positive scene you speak of by associating hardcore with weapons and violence?


And I can't believe you guys don't like Seventh Dagger and those bands!? Metal bands??? Nice try. Some of those bands are the most pure hardcore bands ever.

The bands are really pretty bad and lean way to much to metal for my liking but thats really not the issue, its the message associated with seventh dagger and all the tough guy bullshit that they stand for. They aren't pure hardcore and they aren't making much of a valid contribution to the hardcore scene, they give off completely the wrong impression and just seem to make thuggery something to idolize or model ones self on. If you are supporting the message of murdering drug dealers and think thats ok, if you think imagery of weapons, brass knuckles and particularly guns is a good thing then you really won't see the problem but its pretty sickening that such a positive and self preserving scene is being tainted this type of association. Straightedge isn't about violence, guns and its definitely not about murder, seventh dagger are just way off the mark and the things you have come out with in this discussion just highlights that.


Have you guys listened to xAFBx? They have some of the best straight edge lyrics ever! Listen to "Jumping Ships" and tell me what you think and why. I know they aren't hardcore like Minor Threat, but they are more hardcore punk. xAFBx is hardcore.

I listened to the song you mentioned and it doesn't sound like straight up hardcore at all, it sounds much more like metal than a shit load of bands, the hardcore influence is pretty unclear, i'm sure its there but its really not in the forefront and it would be ridiculous to say they are straight up hardcore. The singing style is really metal esque and personally i found them really boring. As for the lyrics, laughable really, i mean hardcore is known for pretty generic lyrics and i wasn't holding out for anything special in these lyrics but as bad lyrics go they were top of the pile. There are thousands of better songs regarding straightedge and to say those are the best straightedge lyrics ever means either you haven't listened to a shit load of decent hardcore or you have awful taste. Perhaps a bit of both?

[xJoelx]

You guys are just too posi. I love violence at shows and you guys don't. Thats not going to change. The shows I go to are always going to be violent and dangerous and not for everyone. If you don't like what happens at the shows and you are scared and don't feel safe, go to some mall metal show where this wont happen. You shouldn't be there if you are going to stand in the back scared. And we don't want you there. You should be at a mall metal show were you can dance with all the other kids and be safe.
Yeah, we are "tough guys", I don't care if you call us that. This stuff is what makes hardcore shows good. Hardcore shows aren't safe and shouldn't be. And thats what we want people to think. You guys aren't taking about hardcore stuff your talking about posi shit. We aren't posi. We are fucking hatecore in a way, but we like everyone thats in the pit that we are hitting and stuff. Again we like this stuff and if you don't then get out. We aren't exclusive. Anyone can come to the shows, but if you are scared learn to not be scared and get in the pit and join us. You won't die, you will be fine.

As for xAFBx. Yeah, they are more metalcore then harcore but they are not metal and they aren't trying to pass off as hardcore. They play hardcore straight edge music, with metal breakdowns. They are amazing. I don't have bad taste, you got the bad taste. I like stuff with breakdowns and stuff that makes me want to move.
What is your idea of good hardcore bands these days.

Hardcore shows are about moshing and crushing people, getting crushed. And singing along to some good hardcore bands. Everyone has fun, and if you don't and feel like your being excluded. Then go somewhere else where you wont be. Or toughin up and get some balls and go in the pit and have a good time.
You are talking about what posi shows should be like. Hardcore isn't posi.

[straightXed]

You guys are just too posi. I love violence at shows and you guys don't. Thats not going to change. The shows I go to are always going to be violent and dangerous and not for everyone. If you don't like what happens at the shows and you are scared and don't feel safe, go to some mall metal show where this wont happen.

Or i could go to a proper hardcore show where it doesn't happen, i'll leave the metal to you, it seems more up your street.



You shouldn't be there if you are going to stand in the back scared. And we don't want you there. You should be at a mall metal show were you can dance with all the other kids and be safe.

You seem to be fascinated by mall metal all of a sudden, or is this simply a reaction you resort to when you have nothing sensible to say? I mean its great that you don't want other people at the shows, that you only want people who like using weapons to be there. You paint a wonderful picture of hardcore. I mean you clearly aren't taking anything i'm saying on board and are instead retorting to things that haven't been said. And for the record its not about being scared its about having more sense, its about having the ability to enjoy shows and preserve the scene without using mindless violence. You really should read the points raised before typing again. But thanks for saying people aren't welcome if they aren't prepared to mix it up with weapons!



Yeah, we are "tough guys", I don't care if you call us that. This stuff is what makes hardcore shows good. Hardcore shows aren't safe and shouldn't be.

Why shouldn't they be safe? Why shouldn't people take others into consideration? Why shouldn't we look after the venues we use? What actually makes hardcore shows good is good hardcore, something you clearly don't follow, you simply don't have a clue about anything.



And thats what we want people to think.

People just think you are idiots.



You guys aren't taking about hardcore stuff your talking about posi shit.

Wow, you are outdoing yourself now, i am actually talking about hardcore, and i mean proper hardcore, none of this metal that tells you to go kill people and encourages you to be oh so tough by acting dickish in the pit.


We aren't posi. We are fucking hatecore in a way, but we like everyone thats in the pit that we are hitting and stuff. Again we like this stuff and if you don't then get out. We aren't exclusive. Anyone can come to the shows, but if you are scared learn to not be scared and get in the pit and join us. You won't die, you will be fine.

Woooo, hatecore, now theres a term thrown around by the most knucklehead like people, you can't see beyond your own image and you are completely self absorbed. You clearly don't like everyone otherwise you would show consideration for them. And you are clearly exclusive in your beliefs, you even explain a definition of being exclusive after saying you aren't. You say they are only welcome if they play by your rules, thats not what hardcore is about, hardcore is a place for people that don't necessarily fit into a particular mold, it should be open to lots of different people. You see no problem with dictating that it should satisfy you and if you don't like that then its tough, its completely exclusive and not to mention crappy. The whole drive behind your hatecore thing is not representative of hardcore at all, its jock mentality through and through. Now i have no problem with people dancing hard but if they begin to dictate that shows must be that way then they are closing the scene off for others. Luckily its only crappy bands that you are doing this with but it still reflects poorly on the nature of hardcore, i wish you would just dissasociate yourselves completely if you aren't interested in creating a scene that everyone can access regardless of if they are scared of being batted or have more sense then get into brawls with steel chairs.


As for xAFBx. Yeah, they are more metalcore then harcore but they are not metal and they aren't trying to pass off as hardcore. They play hardcore straight edge music, with metal breakdowns. They are amazing. I don't have bad taste, you got the bad taste. I like stuff with breakdowns and stuff that makes me want to move.
What is your idea of good hardcore bands these days.

Dude, you said before they were hardcore, now you are calling them metalcore, you just keep changing what you say with every post. Its more than just metal breakdowns, its barely like hardcore at all. Oh i like proper hardcore, not metal. I could list bands but you have already assumed i have bad taste without knowing what i listen too. But yeah, you really do have poor taste.


Hardcore shows are about moshing and crushing people, getting crushed.

Moshing, yes, crushing people, no, thats just dumb.


And singing along to some good hardcore bands.

Hard to sing along if you can't get to the front because theres a bunch of dicks wrecking the place with bats and chairs. I love singing along at shows, but of course we don't have a bunch of dicks withs bats and chairs at the shows i go to.


Everyone has fun,

Except those people at the back or those at home because they just aren't into being knocked out.



and if you don't and feel like your being excluded.Then go somewhere else where you wont be.

This is you being exclusive again, saying unless they are prepared to mix it up with the dicks with bats then they aren't welcome, way to segregate and make a scene unwelcoming.



Or toughin up and get some balls and go in the pit and have a good time.

Why should they toughen up? What makes you think they even need to, maybe they simply have more sense than you, it really wouldn't be hard. Why can't they enjoy themselves without risking mixing it up with bats and chairs?


You are talking about what posi shows should be like. Hardcore isn't posi.

You realize this is probably the stupidest thing you have said, well one of the stupidest things at least. I am talking about straight up hardcore, hardcore is posi in the sense that it welcomes people of many mindsets, theres no exclusive rule that you have to be a weapon wielding idiot to attend a hardcore show. People who dance hard in the pit don't have more rights to be there than anyone else, real hardcore shows will have people of many types not just one kind of group that dictates how everyone else should behave. It seems your misconception of hardcore is rather different to what the rest of the world sees. I think you need to actually think about the points raised, i mean seriously think about them, give yourself a few weeks to think about them, think about hardcore as a scene that has survived nearly 30 years. And think about why it has survived that long, what challenges it has faced and what underlying properties have held it together and allowed it to survive. I'm sure you would benefit from that as opposed to quickly reacting to the things you read without thinking about what was said.

[D1988]

You guys are just too posi. I love violence at shows and you guys don't. Thats not going to change. The shows I go to are always going to be violent and dangerous and not for everyone. If you don't like what happens at the shows and you are scared and don't feel safe, go to some mall metal show where this wont happen. You shouldn't be there if you are going to stand in the back scared. And we don't want you there. You should be at a mall metal show were you can dance with all the other kids and be safe.
Yeah, we are "tough guys", I don't care if you call us that. This stuff is what makes hardcore shows good. Hardcore shows aren't safe and shouldn't be. And thats what we want people to think. You guys aren't taking about hardcore stuff your talking about posi shit. We aren't posi. We are fucking hatecore in a way, but we like everyone thats in the pit that we are hitting and stuff. Again we like this stuff and if you don't then get out. We aren't exclusive. Anyone can come to the shows, but if you are scared learn to not be scared and get in the pit and join us. You won't die, you will be fine.

As for xAFBx. Yeah, they are more metalcore then harcore but they are not metal and they aren't trying to pass off as hardcore. They play hardcore straight edge music, with metal breakdowns. They are amazing. I don't have bad taste, you got the bad taste. I like stuff with breakdowns and stuff that makes me want to move.
What is your idea of good hardcore bands these days.

Hardcore shows are about moshing and crushing people, getting crushed. And singing along to some good hardcore bands. Everyone has fun, and if you don't and feel like your being excluded. Then go somewhere else where you wont be. Or toughin up and get some balls and go in the pit and have a good time.
You are talking about what posi shows should be like. Hardcore isn't posi.

Dude, Ed has said over several posts alot of stuff you should actually read and take in, but still you are posting dumb shit and making yourself look even more stupid.

I am done even trying to get anything through to you, you're a narrow minded idiot, it's a simple as that.


Hardcore isn't posi.

I bet, like these shitty bands you listen to, you don't think straight edge is a posi thing either?

[SgtD]

One of the best shows I have ever been to was this one.
http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/8808/standfirmshowza5.png
xRepresentx, Taste the Steel, Stand Firm, and Domestic War played, not xSucker Punchx. It was at Stand Firm's house in their basement. They called the show Domestic Violence Fest. People brought bats with barbed wire wraped around them and nails sticking out of them and destroyed people. People were just getting killed the entire time. I got knocked out during the show, by a huge kick to the head, my head went straight to the cement. I think it happened during Taste the Steel, but i'm not sure what band was playing, might have been xRepresentx. Their is still blood one the walls from this show.

Another great show was also in Stand Firms basement. I don't even remember who all played. I know Domestic War played like second, then some other band and Bangarang played and Taste the Steel played last. The show was pretty good but nothing special but then once Taste the Steel started playing people just started killing everything in sight. People were just destroying each other nonstop, then about half way through their set someone(I think the lead singer of Stand Firm) grabed this like box of wood and strated smashing people with this one thing from it, and everyone else started grabing stuff and destroying people. Then someone grabed this dudes crutch and threw it and I saw it on the ground and started hitting people with it and broke it in half over someone or something. And then someone knocked the light out in the ceiling, and it was one of those long light bulbs and they just smashes it so there was glass all over the place. Then Taste the Steel played "Dead City", their last song. People just continued killing. And then after that Fear Tradition came on and played one song. It was one of the most insane things ever. Fear Tradition is too good. The show started with like a ton of people and ended with less then half of what it started with.

And probably my favorite, or at least very close to my favorite, show was this one xRepresentx show at Forward Hall. Had an amazing line up. Massacre Outline opened then some other fantastic band, then Neocracy, then She's in Pain, then Stifling Neglect. And they were fucking nuts. Every one of those bands had one of the best pits I have ever been in. Then after them Fear Tradition played two songs. I never even knew a show could get so crazy at the time. Then xRepresentx played last, and what made this show so good was that like after the first song or something a bunch of people brought out a ton a noodles(like for a pool) and silly string and everyone had a noodle and was hitting each other with them the entire time, lol. And everything and everyone in the place was covered in silly string then someone grabed a trash can full of trash and threw it everywhere and trash was all over the place. It was just madness, I saw someone with a samurai sword at some point. Just thinking about that show makes me so happy, definitly the most fun I ever had. xRepresentx shows are the best, lol. If you havn't seen xRepresentx before, i strongly recommend seeing them, you will not be dissapointed.

All that is what goes down during Erie straight edge shows. This Sunday I am going to see Crowd Deterrent, Taste the Steel, Search Bloc, and some other bands. Crowd Deterrent have the most insane shows of all time. Check them out if you don't know who they are, they are one of my favorite bands.
If I am still alive after that show Sunday I will tell you about it. It is going to be one of the best shows ever. If you can get a ride go to it! If you need to know where it is ask me.
people like you ruin the hardcore scene with this mentality. I bet if you tried something like this at a show in the 80-s at let's say cro-mags show, you would have been beaten the shit out of yourself.

[xcriterionmasterx]

christ, i missed so much. wow. i live in the same city as this kid, and i do love violence at shows, but he is making it seem like no one can go to them that doesn't fuck people up, or dance. completely not true. there are many girls who go to shows and love them, and guys who don't dance, or just sing-a-long. everyone in erie basically knows each other, and are all pretty much "friends" and mean nothing if a spin kick comes in your direction.

sometimes the shows get out of hand, it makes them fun for me, and others, too. but shows can be kept under control, for the most part.

a thing he probably forgot to mention, is most of the violence that ever happens takes place in a band's basement, so any damages that happen are wanted by the band, as they have stated many times.

yesterday there was a hardcore show/punk show, so there were different kinds of people, and we all got along just fine. hell, it was one of the craziest mixes of bands i have seen, straight edge bands sharing the stage with bands that were literally drinking and playing.

i really don't know what else that needs to be say. oh yeah, i love xafbx and other hardcore/metalcore bands like them, like liferuiner. i don't take the lyrics seriously. i enjoy the more over-the-top lyrics.

and to sgtd, anyone who steps foot at a cro-mags show gets beaten the shit out of, haha.

[straightXed]

christ, i missed so much. wow. i live in the same city as this kid, and i do love violence at shows, but he is making it seem like no one can go to them that doesn't fuck people up, or dance. completely not true. there are many girls who go to shows and love them, and guys who don't dance, or just sing-a-long. everyone in erie basically knows each other, and are all pretty much "friends" and mean nothing if a spin kick comes in your direction.

sometimes the shows get out of hand, it makes them fun for me, and others, too. but shows can be kept under control, for the most part.

a thing he probably forgot to mention, is most of the violence that ever happens takes place in a band's basement, so any damages that happen are wanted by the band, as they have stated many times.

yesterday there was a hardcore show/punk show, so there were different kinds of people, and we all got along just fine. hell, it was one of the craziest mixes of bands i have seen, straight edge bands sharing the stage with bands that were literally drinking and playing.

i really don't know what else that needs to be say. oh yeah, i love xafbx and other hardcore/metalcore bands like them, like liferuiner. i don't take the lyrics seriously. i enjoy the more over-the-top lyrics.

and to sgtd, anyone who steps foot at a cro-mags show gets beaten the shit out of, haha.

this doesn't address the weapons, the venues that were closed due to them being wrecked or the awful message that this whole seventh dagger metalcore stuff puts across.

[xcriterionmasterx]

this doesn't address the weapons, the venues that were closed due to them being wrecked or the awful message that this whole seventh dagger metalcore stuff puts across.
ah, well, the weapons. i guess i don't have a good reason for that, someone's idea to make a halloween show more memorable, i guess. yes, it was wrong, but i don't think they would have let it get seriously out of hand. it was more for the scare factor, and wasn't used the whole show, just during one song. and was heavily warned about like basically "look out, i am swinging a dangerous object around."

the venues were closed for really stupid reasons, and they were one-time venues basically, just testing out what places would be good and cheap for hardcore shows. one venue was closed due to people standing out front of the place. one was closed due to the table getting broken. i don't know how it happened, or what exactly went on.

and i kinda touched upon the whole seventh dagger thing, about how i like it to be over-the-top and don't take it too seriously. i guess they put across a bad message for people that take it seriously.

[mouseman004]

i really don't know what else that needs to be say. oh yeah, i love xafbx and other hardcore/metalcore bands like them, like liferuiner. i don't take the lyrics seriously. i enjoy the more over-the-top lyrics.


Yeah life ruiner...Toronto represent!

(i dont actually like the band, I just wanted to share my excitement that a canadian band was mentioned).

[straightXed]

ah, well, the weapons. i guess i don't have a good reason for that, someone's idea to make a halloween show more memorable, i guess. yes, it was wrong, but i don't think they would have let it get seriously out of hand. it was more for the scare factor, and wasn't used the whole show, just during one song. and was heavily warned about like basically "look out, i am swinging a dangerous object around."

Well the guy before spoke of a couple of occasions and also made it seem that things weren't in control. He also didn't see anything wrong with it and seemed to say weapons are violence are great. Its good to have someone else from the scene saying its wrong.


the venues were closed for really stupid reasons, and they were one-time venues basically, just testing out what places would be good and cheap for hardcore shows. one venue was closed due to people standing out front of the place. one was closed due to the table getting broken. i don't know how it happened, or what exactly went on.

Stupid reasons probably equates to kids being stupid and doing dumb shit, it happens. The thing that bothers me most is the other kid saw no problem with it, he couldn't see how dumb ass behavior ruins things for others as well as yourself.


and i kinda touched upon the whole seventh dagger thing, about how i like it to be over-the-top and don't take it too seriously. i guess they put across a bad message for people that take it seriously.

So seventh dagger shouldn't be taken seriously, is it all just a joke? To be honest i don't think it is a joke and many of the people who support don't think its a joke and actually think its a good message. The thing is imagery of weapons and slogans of deliberate violence are not really jokes, they are easily taken serious especially if they are put forward seriously which they are. So even if it was meant to be tongue in cheek or something it really fails to come across that way and it simply attracts people who are attracted to mindless violence and hatred. And i'm in the hardcore scene, thats the impression i get, imagine the impression it paints for others who aren't involved or are new to hardcore.

[D1988]

Yeah life ruiner...Toronto represent!

(i dont actually like the band, I just wanted to share my excitement that a canadian band was mentioned).

Dude, I wouldn't get excited at this band, mainly the lead singer being from Canada at all. Alot of wild rumours fly around about the lead singer and the band, apparently there is an element of truth behind some of the rumours too, I wouldn't be proud that they were associated with where I come from, put it that way.

[xcriterionmasterx]

Stupid reasons probably equates to kids being stupid and doing dumb shit, it happens. The thing that bothers me most is the other kid saw no problem with it, he couldn't see how dumb ass behavior ruins things for others as well as yourself.
i don't like when others ruin shit for me. oh, xjoelx forgot to mention, if he remembers, a great show that was coming to erie was death before dishonor, and it was booked at a venue that got shutdown, so stupid behavior fucking ruined a great thing for us. which pissed me off. i am all about some crazy shit, but not when it gets a show moved, so i miss out. i can't say i wasn't one of the people dancing, and going insane at that venue, but i definitely wasn't one of the people who broke stuff and got it shut down.


So seventh dagger shouldn't be taken seriously, is it all just a joke? To be honest i don't think it is a joke and many of the people who support don't think its a joke and actually think its a good message. The thing is imagery of weapons and slogans of deliberate violence are not really jokes, they are easily taken serious especially if they are put forward seriously which they are. So even if it was meant to be tongue in cheek or something it really fails to come across that way and it simply attracts people who are attracted to mindless violence and hatred. And i'm in the hardcore scene, thats the impression i get, imagine the impression it paints for others who aren't involved or are new to hardcore.
well, it is hard to tell whether it is a joke. i mean, i don't take killing someone seriously. i have a weird sense of humor, and it seems tongue in cheek. i mean, there is a picture of someone being curb stomped on it. but there are definitely people who will take it seriously, which is not a good thing.

[xJoelx]

I am done even trying to get anything through to you, you're a narrow minded idiot, it's a simple as that.



I bet, like these shitty bands you listen to, you don't think straight edge is a posi thing either?

You guys are always going to think im an idiot and thats not going to change. I think hardcore shows are about destroying people and getting destroyed. About violence and insane moshing. We don't take the violence anywhere else but in the pit. And if you don't like that then you shouldn't try to be part of it. Anyone can be part of the scene, but the "exclusive" part i guess would be you just have to be willing to mosh or if your not going to mosh then don't get mad if you get hit or something and don't not like how everyone moshes. So we are not even exclusive, kind of. You either mosh or don't mosh but don't get mad at the people who do. You aren't going to die if you get hit, you might get a little hurt which can happen at any show that even has the weakest moshing possible, so there is no reason you should not like the moshers, you might just think we are stupid for killing each other. Yeah, we aren't smart, in a way, for killing each other but thats how we have fun so who cares. And if you do want to mosh but are scared, or are smart, then just go to a posi show. You would probably like that music more anyway. We ARE hardcore, we are just violent at shows. And shows have always been insane. I have watched videos of the Ramones and people are on other peoples shoulders runing around just pounding everyone in the face. Have you watched Black Flag shows?? People are just getting destroyed, some of those shows are more crazy then some shows I got to now. Minor Threat shows were fucking nuts. One time this dude told me about a Slapshot show he went to and said the lead singer brought this like wood stick thing and smashed it over people.
We dont ruin the hardcore scene in any way. The hardcore scene is supposed to be like this. We do go a little overboard with some stuff though, I don't think so, but i can see how you think some "weapons" we use is too much, but not all the "weapons" are. When people think about a hardcore show they should think, people getting destroyed in the pit, everyone moshing and killing each other in a fun way and having fun doing it. Which is what happens at shows when punk and hardcore first got strated and what happens now. Much more poeple like the hardcore scene the way I do. You guys are some of the only people that I know that don't like it like this. You guys aren't hardcore. You guys are posi idiots. Hardcore shows are NOT posi. If you think they are you are an idiot.

What hardcore bands do you guys think are good and bad?

Straight Edge is very positive, obviously. But Straight Edge shows are not. And thats the only time anything that has to do with straight edge isn't positive.

Im not narrow minded, you guys are. This is what hardcore shows are about, and what they have always been about. Have you guys ever been to a real hardcore show?
Give me some lists of what bands you guys have seen live.


By the way, when I said Hardcore isn't posi, i was talking about hardcore shows.

[xsecx]

Im not narrow minded, you guys are. This is what hardcore shows are about, and what they have always been about. Have you guys ever been to a real hardcore show?
Give me some lists of what bands you guys have seen live.


By the way, when I said Hardcore isn't posi, i was talking about hardcore shows.

how long have you been going to shows and how many of those shows haven't been in erie?

[xJoelx]

how long have you been going to shows and how many of those shows haven't been in erie?

I have been going to shows since like, i think my first show was in 2005. Weak, i know. And a ton have been in Erie and I have gone to some not in Erie too.

[xsecx]

I have been going to shows since like, i think my first show was in 2005. Weak, i know. And a ton have been in Erie and I have gone to some not in Erie too.

well. I've been going to shows for an awful lot longer, and while your view of Erie is probably accurate, it isn't representative of hardcore and it definitely isn't representative of straight edge hardcore. Erie has always had a reputation for bad metal core, overly aggressive kids, militancy and violent shows. Don't fool yourself into thinking that stuff is the same everywhere, it really isn't.

[xJoelx]

well. I've been going to shows for an awful lot longer, and while your view of Erie is probably accurate, it isn't representative of hardcore and it definitely isn't representative of straight edge hardcore. Erie has always had a reputation for bad metal core, overly aggressive kids, militancy and violent shows. Don't fool yourself into thinking that stuff is the same everywhere, it really isn't.

Yeah, thats why I want to know what bands those other people have seen and what there shows are like and if i have seen the bands in Erie and if they are different.

The shows in Youngstown are crazier then Erie shows, I know that. I read all about what happens at there shows. They like line the walls with barbed wire and wrap barbed wire around pips and bring steel trash cans and stuff. And some Cleveland shows are crazy. They got some hate-edge bands like One Life Crew.
Im going to a show in New York friday so I will get to see how that is. Ill post about it. And Toledo and Pittsburge's got some crazy stuff. And I asume Reno shows are nuts. But other then that I don't know, I just always thought shows everywhere were like they are in Erie. But these people showed me they arent and that some people actually don't like shows like I do.

Where do you live? And what bands have you seen and what are your shows like? And where did you hear that stuff about Erie?

[xsecx]

Yeah, thats why I want to know what bands those other people have seen and what there shows are like and if i have seen the bands in Erie and if they are different.

The shows in Youngstown are crazier then Erie shows, I know that. I read all about what happens at there shows. They like line the walls with barbed wire and wrap barbed wire around pips and bring steel trash cans and stuff. And some Cleveland shows are crazy. They got some hate-edge bands like One Life Crew.
Im going to a show in New York friday so I will get to see how that is. Ill post about it. And Toledo and Pittsburge's got some crazy stuff. And I asume Reno shows are nuts. But other then that I don't know, I just always thought shows everywhere were like they are in Erie. But these people showed me they arent and that some people actually don't like shows like I do.

Where do you live? And what bands have you seen and what are your shows like? And where did you hear that stuff about Erie?

OLC were a joke. I lived in Buffalo back in 96-97, back then your scene were mostly vegan christian chugga bands. Shows in buffalo, weren't violent at all.

I live in DC. I have seen pretty much every major hardcore band that has played in the last 20 years, give or take. I've been to shows all over the country. There are some places and show bands that bring out the worst in a crowd, but that doesn't make it the norm. If you saw a band like Battery, or Champion, or Insted or Youth of Today or Ten Yard Fight or Earth Crisis, or Ensign or Right Brigade or Floorpunch, that there may have been fights, but there weren't people hitting each other for "fun".

[xJoelx]

OLC were a joke. I lived in Buffalo back in 96-97, back then your scene were mostly vegan christian chugga bands. Shows in buffalo, weren't violent at all.

I live in DC. I have seen pretty much every major hardcore band that has played in the last 20 years, give or take. I've been to shows all over the country. There are some places and show bands that bring out the worst in a crowd, but that doesn't make it the norm. If you saw a band like Battery, or Champion, or Insted or Youth of Today or Ten Yard Fight or Earth Crisis, or Ensign or Right Brigade or Floorpunch, that there may have been fights, but there weren't people hitting each other for "fun".

You are so lucky. You have seen so much.
Have you seen xRepresentx, Crowd Deterrent, or CDC before?
And what was Youth of Today or Ten Yard Fight like, if you have seen them.
And have you seen, like Black Flag or anything like that?

[xJoelx]

OLC were a joke.

Were they seriously a joke or are you just saying they are a joke because of what they were?

[xsecx]

You are so lucky. You have seen so much.
Have you seen xRepresentx, Crowd Deterrent, or CDC before?
And what was Youth of Today or Ten Yard Fight like, if you have seen them.
And have you seen, like Black Flag or anything like that?

nope. but I think we have really different tastes in hardcore.

TYF was a really fun band to see live. Both when they were a joke at the beginning and when they got more serious and turned into a real band. They used to throw out small rubber footballs when they played. I'm not old enough to have seen black flag, but I bet those shows were legendary. The best shows are ones where the entire crowds were into it, pile ons for sing alongs. constant stage dives. People helping each other up when people get knocked down. That's why when you talk about hardcore shows being full of hate and negative, I just don't see it. you just need to listen to more youth crew bands.

[xJoelx]

nope. but I think we have really different tastes in hardcore.

TYF was a really fun band to see live. Both when they were a joke at the beginning and when they got more serious and turned into a real band. They used to throw out small rubber footballs when they played. I'm not old enough to have seen black flag, but I bet those shows were legendary. The best shows are ones where the entire crowds were into it, pile ons for sing alongs. constant stage dives. People helping each other up when people get knocked down. That's why when you talk about hardcore shows being full of hate and negative, I just don't see it. you just need to listen to more youth crew bands.

Yeah, they would be so much fun. I wish I could see them. That is sweet that yeah threw out small rubber footballs! Reminds me of the time xTyrantx threw a football into the pit and said who ever has the football by the end gets a free shirt and cd, lol.
Yeah, Black Flag, that would be the God of shows.
Yes, I love when everyone is into the show. It is so much fun, I love stage dives and pile ons and sing alongs, so much fun.
The hardcore shows im talking about aren't really filled with hate. It is like negative, but kind of a positive negative. Cause we are all friends there and look out for each other ever though we are all killing each other. If someone gets hurt or anything, everyone helps them out, get him out of there and gets him help. Always helping people up if they fall, and when you blast someone or kick them you like pat them on the back or give them some nod or say something to them. Like when I got knocked out the band stoped playing right in the middle of the song and stoped everything to see if i was alright, and someone carried me to the back and made sure I was ok. And it wasn't one of my close friends or anytihng, just someone thats always at the shows and that I always see. So we my be crushing each other and stuff but we are all cool about it.
Yeah, I love Youth Crew. What are some good Youth Crew bands you recommend, maybe I haven't heard before.

[straightXed]

You guys are always going to think im an idiot and thats not going to change. I think hardcore shows are about destroying people and getting destroyed. About violence and insane moshing. We don't take the violence anywhere else but in the pit.And if you don't like that then you shouldn't try to be part of it.

I wouldn't think you were an idiot if you didn't say idiotic things like "hardcore is about destroying people". And i think its that idea that means you shouldn't try and be a part of hardcore because you clearly don't give a shit about it.





Anyone can be part of the scene,

You just said i shouldn't be a part of it because i don't think its about destroying people.


but the "exclusive" part i guess would be you just have to be willing to mosh or if your not going to mosh then don't get mad if you get hit or something and don't not like how everyone moshes.

Yeah but apparently if i don't want to mosh and i want to stand at the back, perhaps because bats and barbed wire aren't my thing, i'm not welcome. Because according to you the only people you need and want there are those in the pit with you who want to destroy.


So we are not even exclusive, kind of. You either mosh or don't mosh but don't get mad at the people who do.

See this what i mean about how you keep changing what you say from post to post.



You aren't going to die if you get hit, you might get a little hurt which can happen at any show that even has the weakest moshing possible, so there is no reason you should not like the moshers, you might just think we are stupid for killing each other.

You can die from being hit, you could have died from hitting your head the way you described but thats not the issue. Yes it can happen at any show but theres a difference between accidently hurting someone and intentionally hurting someone. You hurt each other for fun which is different from accidently getting hit whilst having fun.


Yeah, we aren't smart, in a way, for killing each other but thats how we have fun so who cares.

well what a great attitude, who cares! Who cares if venues shut as a result, who cares if it stops others enjoying themselves. I guess you really don't care at all so long as you and your buddy destroyers are happy, thats not selfish at all is it?


And if you do want to mosh but are scared, or are smart, then just go to a posi show. You would probably like that music more anyway.

You really don't want anyone else to enjoy hardcore together then and you want to segregate everything? Thats a bit shit of you.


We ARE hardcore, we are just violent at shows.

You don't seem to want hardcore kids like me there, you just want people who destroy, you seem to miss the whole point of hardcore and have somehow got the idea that its about being violent and if you don't want to be violent you shouldn't be there. Thats not hardcore, thats stupid.



And shows have always been insane. I have watched videos of the Ramones and people are on other peoples shoulders runing around just pounding everyone in the face. Have you watched Black Flag shows?? People are just getting destroyed, some of those shows are more crazy then some shows I got to now. Minor Threat shows were fucking nuts. One time this dude told me about a Slapshot show he went to and said the lead singer brought this like wood stick thing and smashed it over people.

This is you justifying why you want to hit people? You know i have no problem with dancing hard and i know what happens at shows but intentionally hitting people, using weapons and wrecking venues is the issue i have, its retarded.


We dont ruin the hardcore scene in any way. The hardcore scene is supposed to be like this.

Ummm, yes you do, you wreck venues and make pure mindless violence the focus point. Its not supposed to be like that.



We do go a little overboard with some stuff though, I don't think so, but i can see how you think some "weapons" we use is too much, but not all the "weapons" are.

Overboard is one way of putting it, they thing is you don't need weapons to have fun and there is no reason to have them there at all. Dancing is just as much fun without weapons and you can still dance hard and make hardcore accessable for others instead of being so self centered.



When people think about a hardcore show they should think, people getting destroyed in the pit, everyone moshing and killing each other in a fun way and having fun doing it.

No, first of all they should thing of good bands, good music, good message in an environment where people are made to feel welcome and enjoy a high energy and fun time. No one needs to think about killing each other or getting destroyed if they don't want to. If they want to dance and release then they should think about dancing hard and moshing but they shouldn't associate that with weapons and they should respect others who approach hardcore in a less physical way, maybe all some people want to do is scream there lungs out, maybe they just want to stage dive. But overall when anyone thinks about a hardcore show they should think of a time that everyone enjoys regardless of how they choose to enjoy it, they should think of a scene where people are looking out for everyone involved not just the ones that like to hit each other. There should never be the idea of if you don't want to hit each other then go somewhere else, that just sucks and so isn't hardcore. Hardcore is not just for you.




Which is what happens at shows when punk and hardcore first got strated and what happens now.

I think i better described what happened at hardcore shows now and then.




Much more poeple like the hardcore scene the way I do. You guys are some of the only people that I know that don't like it like this. You guys aren't hardcore. You guys are posi idiots. Hardcore shows are NOT posi. If you think they are you are an idiot.

Its simply not true, if it were then everyone would be using weapons and wrecking their venues, they aren't doing that because most people can see the problem with that. And just because you only know people that like destroying each other is hardly supprising as you don't care about anyone else who may be at the shows because you think they don't belong there. Now thats idiotic. Hardcore shows can be amazingly positive and you know that, being positive isn't a bad thing or an idiotic thing, you are just upset because i called you an idiot. Everyone having fun and looking out for each other is positive...you say you do this but you don't extend it beyond anyone with a different mindset to yourself. So you having fun and looking out for others makes you an idiot? No, it just means you should be accepting of other people in hardcore and think about your actions more, you could quite easily think of things in a less idiotic way, you just have to give a shit.



Straight Edge is very positive, obviously. But Straight Edge shows are not. And thats the only time anything that has to do with straight edge isn't positive.

I've been to loads of straightedge shows and thoroughly enjoyed them from start to end, it was all positive, even if i get hit or whatever i enjoy myself. The positivity comes from good attitude and everyone there enjoying the show, you can have a mad pit without alienating others and without making people feel unwelcome.


Im not narrow minded, you guys are.

How is it narrowminded to think everyone has a right to enjoy themselves at a hardcore show not just people who want to get insanely violent?


This is what hardcore shows are about, and what they have always been about. Have you guys ever been to a real hardcore show?

Your idea of hardcore shows seems very different from everyone else, this isn't what they are about from all my experience. I have been to plenty of hardcore shows, i started going to shows nearly 10 years ago and i use that experience to help me understand what hardcore shows are about.




Give me some lists of what bands you guys have seen live.

American nightmare/give up the ghost
count me out
bane
h2o
sick of it all
modern life is war
sinking ships
verse
go it alone
agnostic front
shai hulud
have heart
ignite
youth of today
What happens next
7 seconds
stretch arm strong
shutdown
champion
blue monday
sworn in
with honor
kill yout idols
madball
strife
striking distance
earth crisis
reaching forward
ensign
righteous jams
and more but thats a good cross section.






By the way, when I said Hardcore isn't posi, i was talking about hardcore shows.

Thats a shame, i find them really positive, you must be doing something wrong.

[xJoelx]

You just said i shouldn't be a part of it because i don't think its about destroying people.

I mean that you shouldn't be part of the pit and be in the area where people are destroying each other if you don't like that stuff.
I said you can be part of the scene and not mosh, I said if your not going to mosh then just don't get mad if you get hit or something and don't not like how everyone moshes and be a bitch about how people mosh.




Yeah but apparently if i don't want to mosh and i want to stand at the back, perhaps because bats and barbed wire aren't my thing, i'm not welcome. Because according to you the only people you need and want there are those in the pit with you who want to destroy.

Did you read what I said? I send it is ok to not mosh, just don't get mad if you get hit and be a bitch about how everyone moshing to crazy.




See this what i mean about how you keep changing what you say from post to post.

Im changing some things around because you are changing my opinion on some stuff.





You can die from being hit, you could have died from hitting your head the way you described but thats not the issue. Yes it can happen at any show but theres a difference between accidently hurting someone and intentionally hurting someone. You hurt each other for fun which is different from accidently getting hit whilst having fun.

Yeah you could but it is very unlikly. Has anyone ever died at a show before, i think like someone died in a Smashing Pumpkins pit, and thats like the only thing i have heard of someone dying. But we do increase the chances. When I got kicked it was actually an accident. The guy was just hardcore dancing in the pit not trying to hit anyone and did a kick not knowing i was there and hit me. Funny, someone not trying to, at that moment, hit people hits someone and knockes them out, lol. If we like hitting each other in the pit like we do, then why is it a bad thing? Yeah, it is stupid, not to me, but i see why you think that of course.




well what a great attitude, who cares! Who cares if venues shut as a result, who cares if it stops others enjoying themselves. I guess you really don't care at all so long as you and your buddy destroyers are happy, thats not selfish at all is it

Yeah, who cares if we hit each other if thats what we want. If we want this to happen then why is it bad? Yes, it is bad that those two venues shut down. One of the venues was one of the most perfect places for shows, and one of my favorite venues even though it only had two shows. But it was worth it, what happened at the show and it shuting down. But thats because we have like 10 other venues that will always be there and never shut down, so i didn't really matter. But if we only had like that place and like one other place then that would awful and not worth it. But the other venue stop having shows and making the Death Before Dishonor show cancelled, i don't know if that was worth it. I mean I will live if I don't see Death Before Dishonor, but I get another chance to see them Friday so I am lucky. But some people might not get another chance. The show would have still be fantastic without the tables getting smashed and the steel chair and the dodge balls and trash can. But those things happening made it much more memorable, and the venue stop having shows also made it even more more memorable. So it is worth it to me, but like i said we got many more venues but if we didn't it wouldn't have been worth it. And I get another chance to see Death Before Dishonor so im fine, but if it realy made someone upset to not see Death Before Dishonor and they don't get another chance then it wasn't worth it.




You really don't want anyone else to enjoy hardcore together then and you want to segregate everything? Thats a bit shit of you.

I want everyone to enjoy the show. That would make the show the best it could possibly be if everyone enjoyed moshing like I do. But thats not going to happen. And everyone at the shows should, even if you aren't in the pit, listening to the music should be fun for you and watching the pit should be a bunch of fun.




You don't seem to want hardcore kids like me there, you just want people who destroy, you seem to miss the whole point of hardcore and have somehow got the idea that its about being violent and if you don't want to be violent you shouldn't be there. Thats not hardcore, thats stupid.

I want people there that like the music and want to mosh like me. But if someone like you are there that just hates these people that are moshing and think they are so stupid, it would seem not only I wouldn't want you there but you would want yourself there. Yes, I think hardcore shows are about violence, not all (depends on the band). Like a CDC show is, but a Youth of Today show probably wouldn't be?(havn't seen them live so i don't know, but am i right?) Maybe in Erie it would though? I wonder how a Youth of Today show would be in Erie. It might be violent. And if you don't like violence you can still be there, thats fine, just don't get really mad if someone hits you and be a bitch about the people in the pit and how they mosh.





This is you justifying why you want to hit people? You know i have no problem with dancing hard and i know what happens at shows but intentionally hitting people, using weapons and wrecking venues is the issue i have, its retarded.

No, im just saying this is how a lot of shows have been. It's not like everysingle show has be completely positive and just all of a sudden people like us start doing this.
And yeah, we hit people but we are all friends there and look out for each other even though we are all killing each other. It isnt like everyone hates everyone. If someone gets hurt or anything, everyone helps them out, get him out of there and gets him help. Always helping people up if they fall, and when you blast someone or kick them you like pat them on the back or give them some nod or say something to them. Like when I got knocked out the band stoped playing right in the middle of the song and stoped everything to see if i was alright, and someone carried me to the back and made sure I was ok. And it wasn't one of my close friends or anytihng, just someone thats always at the shows and that I always see.




Ummm, yes you do, you wreck venues and make pure mindless violence the focus point. Its not supposed to be like that.

I don't think we do and never will. I think some shows should be like this, depending on the band.




Overboard is one way of putting it, they thing is you don't need weapons to have fun and there is no reason to have them there at all. Dancing is just as much fun without weapons and you can still dance hard and make hardcore accessable for others instead of being so self centered.

No we don't, but i think it makes it more fun and memorable. Maybe we shouldn't use bats and use stuff like pool noodles? My favorite show I ever went to they threw out a ton of noodles and everyone had one and was hitting each other. I actually liked that much more then useing steel chairs or bats. There's no way you could think that wouldn't be fun! And everyone sprayed silly string everywhere and dumped trash all over the place. And at the end we all helped clean up.





No, first of all they should thing of good bands, good music, good message in an environment where people are made to feel welcome and enjoy a high energy and fun time. No one needs to think about killing each other or getting destroyed if they don't want to. If they want to dance and release then they should think about dancing hard and moshing but they shouldn't associate that with weapons and they should respect others who approach hardcore in a less physical way, maybe all some people want to do is scream there lungs out, maybe they just want to stage dive. But overall when anyone thinks about a hardcore show they should think of a time that everyone enjoys regardless of how they choose to enjoy it, they should think of a scene where people are looking out for everyone involved not just the ones that like to hit each other. There should never be the idea of if you don't want to hit each other then go somewhere else, that just sucks and so isn't hardcore. Hardcore is not just for you.

Im talking about shows, obviously bands and the music comes first. Add the shows they should be brutal and rough, thats what makes them good. And just don't see how you just hate shows that are a little rougher. Yeah, I know you think it is stupid and pointless and doesn't need to happen. But I think thats what makes shows fun and I am never going to get how you can just not like shows like that.






Its simply not true, if it were then everyone would be using weapons and wrecking their venues, they aren't doing that because most people can see the problem with that. And just because you only know people that like destroying each other is hardly supprising as you don't care about anyone else who may be at the shows because you think they don't belong there. Now thats idiotic. Hardcore shows can be amazingly positive and you know that, being positive isn't a bad thing or an idiotic thing, you are just upset because i called you an idiot. Everyone having fun and looking out for each other is positive...you say you do this but you don't extend it beyond anyone with a different mindset to yourself. So you having fun and looking out for others makes you an idiot? No, it just means you should be accepting of other people in hardcore and think about your actions more, you could quite easily think of things in a less idiotic way, you just have to give a shit.

It is true in some places, but not all I guess. I have just know about the PA, Ohio, and New York scence. Mostly all the shows I go to are like this and its always been that way, so I just assumed that why would it be different anywhere else? But apparently it is different. Or maybe it depends on who the band is in some cases. But ill get to that later. And we aren't purposely trying to shut down these venues, we are just doing what we do and those places are not for what we do. We have learned from this, and know to only be like that at places that let stuff like that happen.
Yeah, shows can be positive. And no thats not a bad thing. And if everyone having fun and looking out for each other is positive, that is what we do. And we don't care if your mindset is different. We don't care if you don't mosh, we want you to, but if you don't want to we aren't going to hate you for it or just beat you up. Sometimes the craziest people at shows just don't even go in the pit at some shows for some reason, even when it is the same band. I do wonder why he isn't in the pitt, but I don't just not like him or think he is an idiot.




I've been to loads of straightedge shows and thoroughly enjoyed them from start to end, it was all positive, even if i get hit or whatever i enjoy myself. The positivity comes from good attitude and everyone there enjoying the show, you can have a mad pit without alienating others and without making people feel unwelcome.

Yeah, i was wrong. It depends on the band thats playing that will tell how the show will be or maybe even where the show is at. And you got hit and didn't care? Then whats the probablem, it would probably be a little harder and more purposely amed in the direction of you and the people around you but you still shouldn't get mad at it. You should act the same way you acted when you got hit. Everyone at these shows has a good attitude, we are all looking out for each other and cool about how we mosh and don't start fights or any stupid shit like that.





Your idea of hardcore shows seems very different from everyone else, this isn't what they are about from all my experience. I have been to plenty of hardcore shows, i started going to shows nearly 10 years ago and i use that experience to help me understand what hardcore shows are about.

Yeah, my scene has always been very violent. And when I got into the scene thats how it was and made me think thats how it is supposed to be and how it was everywhere. And it must be different in some places but i know it is also the same in some places, and the band playing could also change things.






American nightmare/give up the ghost
count me out
bane
h2o
sick of it all
modern life is war
sinking ships
verse
go it alone
agnostic front
shai hulud
have heart
ignite
youth of today
What happens next
7 seconds
stretch arm strong
shutdown
champion
blue monday
sworn in
with honor
kill yout idols
madball
strife
striking distance
earth crisis
reaching forward
ensign
righteous jams
and more but thats a good cross section.

Yeah, you havn't really seen any bands that would get way insane like some Erie straight edge shows. But Bane was pretty insane when I saw them, the first band I ever saw live, (they are one of my favorite bands) and that show was one of the best i have ever been to, people were flying from every which way and there was some people getting crushed. How were they for you? And where was it at?

Sick of it All and Madball im going to see Friday, like I have said before. And i think that it is going to be absolute madness. What happened when you saw them? And were was it at?

Agnostic Front is one of my favorite bands, i must see them live. And I know they played in Erie before and it had to be one of the most insane things ever. When you saw them was it really insane? And where was it?

Man, Youth of Today had to be the best thing ever. I would kill to see them. And 7 Seconds, Stretch Arm Strong, Champion, they all had to be amazing.

Strike, that would be one of the best shows ever. How was it? And where?

Now Earth Crisis, played a show in Erie with Shockwave. And that would be nuts, i wasn't there, but I could see there being insane crowd beating at that show. What was it like when you saw them and where was it?

Where do you live? Are there ever any bands like xRepresentx, Crowd Deterrent, or CDC or anything like that that have played near you? And were any of those shows really insane with a lot of people crushing each other? I don't know about a lot of those bands so I don't know how there shows would be.

[straightXed]

I mean that you shouldn't be part of the pit and be in the area where people are destroying each other if you don't like that stuff.
I said you can be part of the scene and not mosh, I said if your not going to mosh then just don't get mad if you get hit or something and don't not like how everyone moshes and be a bitch about how people mosh.

Thats fine except you still need to accept that there will always be people around that don't want to mosh and you should really try to allow their enjoyment of the show to prosper too.






Did you read what I said? I send it is ok to not mosh, just don't get mad if you get hit and be a bitch about how everyone moshing to crazy.

Yeah, i read what you said, and a lot of what you said doesn't give that message, you have said things about only needing people who are prepared to mosh the way you mosh and everyone else shouldn't be there. If you are now retracting that sentiment then fine, disregard my reply to those sentiments and i am glad you have changed your mind.






Im changing some things around because you are changing my opinion on some stuff.

Thats good.







Yeah you could but it is very unlikly. Has anyone ever died at a show before, i think like someone died in a Smashing Pumpkins pit, and thats like the only thing i have heard of someone dying. But we do increase the chances. When I got kicked it was actually an accident. The guy was just hardcore dancing in the pit not trying to hit anyone and did a kick not knowing i was there and hit me. Funny, someone not trying to, at that moment, hit people hits someone and knockes them out, lol. If we like hitting each other in the pit like we do, then why is it a bad thing? Yeah, it is stupid, not to me, but i see why you think that of course.

Its actually incredibly easy to die from being hit, far easier than you may think. You are also more likely to be affected more severely by strikes that are a surprise which again is another reason for being aware of others who are around you, apart from anything its just common decency.






Yeah, who cares if we hit each other if thats what we want. If we want this to happen then why is it bad? Yes, it is bad that those two venues shut down. One of the venues was one of the most perfect places for shows, and one of my favorite venues even though it only had two shows. But it was worth it, what happened at the show and it shuting down.

Sounds like with a little bit of thought you actually care about the consequences of your actions, you ask why its bad and then explain that venues shutting down is bad, answered your own question there. Perhaps you missed the sarcasm in the part you just quoted or omitted it deliberately but it was there. So you wouldn't omit the weapons and wrecking of a venue in order to keep your perfect venue that resides amongst your favorite.



But thats because we have like 10 other venues that will always be there and never shut down, so i didn't really matter.

You can't say they won't ever shut down, its always a possibility and you should look after the venues you use instead of wrecking them, thats just common sense. But yeah, you are right, i guess you don't really matter!!


But if we only had like that place and like one other place then that would awful and not worth it.

So you have surplus venues, so trash a few. So how many venues makes you change your behavior? If you only had 5 venues left would you still trash them? Wheres the line here? Its like being rich and burning money, you can afford it but its still pretty stupid and far from worth it when you think about it.



But the other venue stop having shows and making the Death Before Dishonor show cancelled, i don't know if that was worth it. I mean I will live if I don't see Death Before Dishonor, but I get another chance to see them Friday so I am lucky. But some people might not get another chance.

Its nice to see you actually thinking about someone else in this part of your reply, its usually you saying how you don't care so long as you are alright but i must commend you and actually recognizing that someone else may not get a chance to see a band as a result of a trashed venue. See its great while you have so many venues but it can so easily become a trend to really fuck things up and then you just end up with ridiculous behavior happening more and more. I know you think its controlled but that just suggests that you planned to close the venue down, if you didn't then that becomes a sign that its not fully in control.



The show would have still be fantastic without the tables getting smashed and the steel chair and the dodge balls and trash can. But those things happening made it much more memorable, and the venue stop having shows also made it even more more memorable.

I'm sure you guys have the ability to think up other ways to make a show memorable, i mean trashing things is all a bit cliche really. Its up there with bands smashing their instruments, i mean it sounds like its memorable for the wrong reasons, ceasing to put on shows due to poor behavior and being wrecked may be memorable but so is shooting your leg off. I mean i am sure you wouldn't shoot yourself for the notable memory which then begs the question why would people shoot them selves in the foot metaphorically but closing down a venue.



So it is worth it to me, but like i said we got many more venues but if we didn't it wouldn't have been worth it. And I get another chance to see Death Before Dishonor so im fine, but if it realy made someone upset to not see Death Before Dishonor and they don't get another chance then it wasn't worth it.

It may seem worth it but you have to think with the long term, ok right now you have loads of venues but people move on and the venues may not always be available. In years to come new kids might be trying to put on shows but get nowhere with certain venues because of your actions before. Sure its all ok if there are still other venues but why rely on those core venues. Isn't it nice to have more venues to choose from, especially really good venues like you said. A few years back there was a venue near me that was really cool, the owners changed hands and after about 3 shows the new owners didn't want hardcore shows there anymore...it was sad but at least it wasn't because we had done anything to make it happen. We still have other venues but its nice to have variety and with more venues it makes booking bands easier. The point is your actions have ramifications way beyond missing out on seeing a band, hardcore as a scene survived because people did care about it and looked after it so it was readily accessible to newer kids, i really think that should figure strongly in everyones mindset. Here often scenes die away because the people that made it happen move on and its sad, its great that you have a scene that has continued on for a long time but its no reason to get complacent about things and burning bridges with venues for silly things.






I want everyone to enjoy the show. That would make the show the best it could possibly be if everyone enjoyed moshing like I do. But thats not going to happen. And everyone at the shows should, even if you aren't in the pit, listening to the music should be fun for you and watching the pit should be a bunch of fun.

Yeah you are right, it would be great if everyone enjoyed the show in the same fashion you do but like you say it won't happen that way. Still, it is great fun to attend shows and not mosh, but remember whilst they may not want to mosh they still may want to get up front and sing along or stage dive. Don't relegate them to the back because of how you enjoy the show, i'm not and never have said you shouldn't dance i just would love to see your attitude be encouraging to others who don't want to mosh...i mean all that crap about not needing them there or suggesting they go elsewhere...i mean that is dickish isn't it? If theres people in the pit you know and you enjoy hitting each other then although i think its stupid i'm not saying don't i am saying however, just remember a bunch of people aren't into that, they are aware they may get accidentally hit and i have never suggested that we have a scene where that doesn't happen. But i've seen people at shows that are purposeful in hitting people while dancing and it really isn't cool, i mean if you and your friends are down with it ok. But i've seen shows where the pit consisted of about 5 people and they danced really hard and really spread out, everyone not wanting to dance or be hit had been pushed to the back, right to the back of the fairly large room. The for some reason the 5 people moshing insisted on moshing towards the perimeter where everyone had stepped back too, a flailing fist caught a woman in the chest, she wasn't happy and a guy got spin kicked in the head. Now no one was seriously hurt but its the consideration of others that i am trying to get through to you here, i mean sure if people are right next to a pit that is fairly tight then you might get hit, we hope the people in the pit aren't trying to hit people near it and are observing a level of decency whilst enjoying themselves how they choose. We all accept that being hit happens, we aren't doing the waltz, its moshing.
However, the idea of hurting anyone that gets up front on purpose isn't good, like the pit taking up a whole area for no reason and still needing to be in a position to hit people who don't want to be hit, that mentality where people think thats ok is never ok. I've seen it happen and you can tell when people are moshing purposefully to hit people. I still don't really think that hitting each other on purpose is good, i understand if you know them and the relationship allows that but it can send a weird message to onlookers or newcomers.






I want people there that like the music and want to mosh like me. But if someone like you are there that just hates these people that are moshing and think they are so stupid, it would seem not only I wouldn't want you there but you would want yourself there.

Ummm, i never said i hated moshing once, you should actually read my words again, i don't think you are stupid for moshing, i mean that would make me think that i am stupid for moshing too and i don't think that at all. I think your attitude towards other people and hardcore in general has come off very stupid and very self centered. However if someone thinks moshing is stupid but hardcore music is amazing then surely you can see why they would want to be there...they still have a right to be there. If they said you shouldn't be there and they didn't want you there you'd think that was idiotic right? Well its the same if you think they shouldn't be there just because they don't enjoy moshing for whatever reason...its like a lad here has cerebral palsy and he simply wouldn't be able to stand up in the pit and because he's not that stable on his feet he really dislikes being in a position he can get hit. He doesn't think your stupid for wanting to mosh or anything like that but i'm he would think you were stupid if you thought he shouldn't be there because he dislikes moshing. Moshing is a part of hardcore and that has never been something i disputed, i think that needs clarifying because you seem to be reading things into my posts that aren't there. I accept moshing and i enjoy it, i am of the opinion that hardcore shows are about everyone, no one has more rights than anyone else. The band, the pit, the people at the back, the people at the sides, people up the front, everyone has the same rights and we should all ensure that we don't stop anyone elses right to enjoy the show because we are to wrapped up in our own enjoyment. I don't want to stop your enjoyment but i also don't want your enjoyment to over shadow someone elses, i want the message given across to mean that everyone is involved.




Yes, I think hardcore shows are about violence, not all (depends on the band).

Hardcore shows are about fun, enjoyment etc. Its not about violence, sure moshing can be violent, thats accepted but a hardcore show is not just the people in the pit. This still comes off as you thinking that if you aren't violent you don't belong and thats crappy.



Like a CDC show is, but a Youth of Today show probably wouldn't be?(havn't seen them live so i don't know, but am i right?) Maybe in Erie it would though? I wonder how a Youth of Today show would be in Erie. It might be violent. And if you don't like violence you can still be there, thats fine, just don't get really mad if someone hits you and be a bitch about the people in the pit and how they mosh.

I know some youth of today shows went violent but i am no expert, i'm sure they were probably a lot of fun, very energetic for the most part. This isn't about getting mad if someone hits you, i have no idea where you are getting this from? This isn't about being a bitch either, i'm not sure you are ever going to be able to get what i am saying, you seem to be ignoring what i have been saying or simply not grasping it. If people are going to the show for fun and they get it sans violence then surely hardcore isn't about violence, it might be what you focus on to get your fun but if you can't accept that people enjoy it in different ways then this is all lost on you. You can mosh, never said don't i just said purposefully hurting people is dumb, wrecking venues is dumb and suggesting that hardcore is solely about violence is dumb not to mention it seems to exclude people who aren't interested in moshing or hitting people for fun. There was a reason i asked you to take the time to read my reply and think it over before replying, you have simply replied and got the complete wrong end of the stick.







No, im just saying this is how a lot of shows have been. It's not like everysingle show has be completely positive and just all of a sudden people like us start doing this.
And yeah, we hit people but we are all friends there and look out for each other even though we are all killing each other. It isnt like everyone hates everyone. If someone gets hurt or anything, everyone helps them out, get him out of there and gets him help. Always helping people up if they fall, and when you blast someone or kick them you like pat them on the back or give them some nod or say something to them. Like when I got knocked out the band stoped playing right in the middle of the song and stoped everything to see if i was alright, and someone carried me to the back and made sure I was ok. And it wasn't one of my close friends or anytihng, just someone thats always at the shows and that I always see.

Well you were trying to justify it, just because someone does something at a show before doesn't make it ok now. But you hopefully read the part where i said i have no problem with dancing hard. Its great you look out for each other but would you intentionally hit someone you didn't know? Wrecking venues remains retarded as does the weapons.






I don't think we do and never will. I think some shows should be like this, depending on the band.

You don't wreck venues? And the things you said in this thread say otherwise, even now you say hardcore is about violence and that misses the point. Whilst dancing is violent and the music is angry surely hardcore is about enjoyment above all else?






No we don't, but i think it makes it more fun and memorable. Maybe we shouldn't use bats and use stuff like pool noodles? My favorite show I ever went to they threw out a ton of noodles and everyone had one and was hitting each other. I actually liked that much more then useing steel chairs or bats. There's no way you could think that wouldn't be fun! And everyone sprayed silly string everywhere and dumped trash all over the place. And at the end we all helped clean up.

That sounds a lot better then "we wrecked the place, closed it down and killed people with bats with nails in!"





Im talking about shows, obviously bands and the music comes first. Add the shows they should be brutal and rough, thats what makes them good. And just don't see how you just hate shows that are a little rougher. Yeah, I know you think it is stupid and pointless and doesn't need to happen. But I think thats what makes shows fun and I
am never going to get how you can just not like shows like that.

I'm not sure if you actually read what i wrote here. I don't hate shows that are rough i hate attitudes that suggest if you don't want to be rough then you aren't welcome. I wrote about how everyone at the show should enjoy themselves not just the people that need a black eye they next day. That doesn't equate to a hate of people dancing hard and getting physical, it equates to a disdain of an attitude that segregates hardcore into something that excludes certain people from enjoyment. I think associating hardcore with weapons is really silly and again that is for the other reasons i have outlined which lead back into the negative message that hardcore is about hurting others, i don't mind it being rough but weapons is the wrong direction and it supports a really poor message.





It is true in some places, but not all I guess. I have just know about the PA, Ohio, and New York scence. Mostly all the shows I go to are like this and its always been that way, so I just assumed that why would it be different anywhere else? But apparently it is different. Or maybe it depends on who the band is in some cases. But ill get to that later. And we aren't purposely trying to shut down these venues, we are just doing what we do and those places are not for what we do. We have learned from this, and know to only be like that at places that let stuff like that happen.

Well learning your lesson is different than saying you don't care, see i like it when you give more honest answers instead of ones that sound tough yet stupid. I mean all the stuff about having other venues making it ok, it really doesn't, i mean its ok to be regretful of losing a venue, thats what you learn from, and like you said you learnt from it. I still think the weapons are a stupid idea regardless of the venue approving, it just gives a different message and theres a lo t of young minds at shows, even older minds are often still very impressionable. We have a great venue here thats owned by a few kids in the scene, and the oddest things happen there that just don't at other venues, it is nice to have somewhere that the fun can be more fun but you still need to respect the place right?




Yeah, shows can be positive. And no thats not a bad thing. And if everyone having fun and looking out for each other is positive, that is what we do. And we don't care if your mindset is different. We don't care if you don't mosh, we want you to, but if you don't want to we aren't going to hate you for it or just beat you up. Sometimes the craziest people at shows just don't even go in the pit at some shows for some reason, even when it is the same band. I do wonder why he isn't in the pitt, but I don't just not like him or think he is an idiot.

Ok, we established that you retracted the thing about not wanting or needing people that think differently there, its kind of been a point that most of this discussion was about, i said the things i said because of the view you put across, bear that in mind as you respond. And likewise i don't hate you or think you are an idiot for moshing, this has been all about the views you have put forward and no longer seem to stand by, your whole reply seems to have gone through a change of opinion as i have worked through it, thats good and i hope you are able to realize why your original comments triggered the replies they did.




Yeah, i was wrong. It depends on the band thats playing that will tell how the show will be or maybe even where the show is at. And you got hit and didn't care? Then whats the probablem, it would probably be a little harder and more purposely amed in the direction of you and the people around you but you still shouldn't get mad at it. You should act the same way you acted when you got hit. Everyone at these shows has a good attitude, we are all looking out for each other and cool about how we mosh and don't start fights or any stupid shit like that.

Ok here it seems you think its ok to hit someone intentionally who isn't actually in the pit, accidentally is acceptable, i understand it can happen, if you purposefully hit me i would not be happy. I mean its not a good route to go down for me, unfortunately being a martial artist of a decent standard its not really good for me to purposefully hit people, i tend to instinctively hit people in very vulnerable areas and thats really not good for anyone. Also if some comes at me with intent i would react instinctively, its hard to turn that off and thats one reason why mosh pits aren't that good for me. Its very different dealing with an accidental hit to a purposeful one especially if you aren't in the pit, someone purposefully hitting someone not in the pit is not a great way to avoid a fight, its a great way to start one let me tell you that much. So if you are doing that while you say you aren't looking to start fights, well i think a rethink is needed.






Yeah, you havn't really seen any bands that would get way insane like some Erie straight edge shows.

I have seen a load of metal core bands and really hard nosed UKHC and to be honest i think its less about the band and more about the people, the band play a part but i have seen the same bands in london at other places and the reaction is very different.


But Bane was pretty insane when I saw them, the first band I ever saw live, (they are one of my favorite bands) and that show was one of the best i have ever been to, people were flying from every which way and there was some people getting crushed. How were they for you? And where was it at?


I've seen bane a load of times at various places, i really like them too. And funnily enough i do recall him talking about kids doing stupid shit at hardcore shows one time but he talks a lot. Generally the shows went off, constant from start to end, fun pit, pile ons, sing alongs and stage dives. All good fun, and sure people may have left with bruises or what not but the focus was on fun not purposefully hitting each other.



Sick of it All and Madball im going to see Friday, like I have said before. And i think that it is going to be absolute madness. What happened when you saw them? And were was it at?

Again i have seen soia a bunch of times, all over the place, i've only seen madball a couple of times and am not a big fan, one time was in london with suicidal tendancies, it was a very odd show.



Agnostic Front is one of my favorite bands, i must see them live. And I know they played in Erie before and it had to be one of the most insane things ever. When you saw them was it really insane? And where was it?

Twice, once in london and once in bristol, in bristol they played with some dodgy metal band called hatebreed or something!!! The london show was good but the bristol show was boring to be honest. Worst thing about that show was the remnants of that crappy band 'dog eat dog' singing about beers and asking the crowd about smoking cannabis


Man, Youth of Today had to be the best thing ever. I would kill to see them. And 7 Seconds, Stretch Arm Strong, Champion, they all had to be amazing.

Yeah i had fun, although positivity was mentioned...sorry to disappoint you!




Strike, that would be one of the best shows ever. How was it? And where?

Do you mean strife?



Now Earth Crisis, played a show in Erie with Shockwave. And that would be nuts, i wasn't there, but I could see there being insane crowd beating at that show. What was it like when you saw them and where was it?

It was ok, it was one of the first shows i went to and i think they had gone off the boil a bit by then, i still have my shirt somewhere though. I nearly went to see shockwave one time, not really into it but some friends were going, never made it in the end.




Where do you live? Are there ever any bands like xRepresentx, Crowd Deterrent, or CDC or anything like that that have played near you?

I don't think those bands have made it over here yet but they really aren't on my radar.



And were any of those shows really insane with a lot of people crushing each other? I don't know about a lot of those bands so I don't know how there shows would be.

Crushing each other? No, not really, well i guess the pile ons get pretty crushed and the stage dives meant a little crushing too.