Caffeine and meat, where do you stand?

[Sociocidal]

Iv been Straight Edge for years, but i have still to fully decide if Caffeine and meat should be removed from a diet if you are straight edge. Considering that compared to alcohol and other major drugs caffeine is nothing as far as its effects on the body go, and meat is a natural sorce of protien and iron for our speices, though obvious moral implications apply. Opinions?

[straightXed]

Iv been Straight Edge for years, but i have still to fully decide if Caffeine and meat should be removed from a diet if you are straight edge. Considering that compared to alcohol and other major drugs caffeine is nothing as far as its effects on the body go, and meat is a natural sorce of protien and iron for our speices, though obvious moral implications apply. Opinions?


Straightedge avoids recreational drug usage...caffeine is a drug, meat is not.

[xGriffox]

meat's content in terms of growth hormones and other harmful substances is up for debate, and one of the reasons i abstain from consuming it, but that has nothing to do with being straight edge, just has to do with my own set of beliefs.

[straightXed]

meat's content in terms of growth hormones and other harmful substances is up for debate, and one of the reasons i abstain from consuming it, but that has nothing to do with being straight edge, just has to do with my own set of beliefs.


surely saying it has nothing to do with straightedge means it really isn't up for debate.

[xGriffox]

surely saying it has nothing to do with straightedge means it really isn't up for debate.

maybe i just used poor wording, i was saying how healthy meat is was up for debate, not whether it was straight edge or not.

[CarlaRant]

I don't do either, but meat is not a drug. My hippycore tendencies have led me to be xveganx :D

[straightXed]

maybe i just used poor wording, i was saying how healthy meat is was up for debate, not whether it was straight edge or not.

Ok, poorly worded and not relevant to what was asked, but since its debatable...how healthy is meat?

[XAdrenalineX]

Caffeine doesn't affect my mind, so I don't really mind if I drink something with caffeine in it.

I refuse to eat meat. I don't need it, so it's wrong to have an animal die so I can eat something.

[straightXed]

Caffeine doesn't affect my mind, so I don't really mind if I drink something with caffeine in it.

I refuse to eat meat. I don't need it, so it's wrong to have an animal die so I can eat something.

You don't need caffeine either! And it does effect you even if you think it doesn't or are only concerned about effecting the mind.

[xGriffox]

Ok, poorly worded and not relevant to what was asked, but since its debatable...how healthy is meat?

it all depends on how much and of what quality of meat you eat. Certain cultures (like many pre-colonial native americans) were almost entirely veg(eteri)an while others ate some meat interspersed into a diet heavy in grains, fruits, and plants. These people (and for this particular example, the Aztecs) had a life expectancy twice as long as the Spanish Conquistadors (whose diet was heavily reliant on meat and animal products) who eventually exploited and killed them all. This was all even before the implementation of growth hormones and the innumerable diseases that result from the factory farm systems that are prevalent today.

you can eat meat (in moderation) and be healthy, you can also be vegan and be healthy. When it comes down to it the cruelty involved, not the issue of health, is what really pushes me over the edge and makes me completely abstain from the consumption of meat and animal products altogether rather than consuming them in moderation.

[straightXed]

it all depends on how much and of what quality of meat you eat. Certain cultures (like many pre-colonial native americans) were almost entirely veg(eteri)an while others ate some meat interspersed into a diet heavy in grains, fruits, and plants. These people (and for this particular example, the Aztecs) had a life expectancy twice as long as the Spanish Conquistadors (whose diet was heavily reliant on meat and animal products) who eventually exploited and killed them all. This was all even before the implementation of growth hormones and the innumerable diseases that result from the factory farm systems that are prevalent today.

you can eat meat (in moderation) and be healthy, you can also be vegan and be healthy. When it comes down to it the cruelty involved, not the issue of health, is what really pushes me over the edge and makes me completely abstain from the consumption of meat and animal products altogether rather than consuming them in moderation.

Doesn't sound like its all that debatable really. I mean you have illustrated that poor quality meat isn't as good for you but that transcends to all food it is plainly obvious really. You also mention that eating meat in moderation (a better term would be "as part of a balanced diet") is ok and can be healthy. Which of course is the same for other foods and all diets should be well balanced if it is based on meat or not.

In fact the only debatable point i noted was the innumerable diseases linked to factory farming but that just goes back to quality of food surely? And there is more and more action by supermarkets here to provide better farmed better quality meat at affordable prices. The farming issues alone certainly don't give cause to abstain from meat but rather find better farmed meat. Its at this point you have to then move onto issues of cruelty which is of course a different debate.

[Dummy]

I love cheese burgers but I don't consume them with caffienated beverages.

[linsee]

I like meat and Diet Pepsi is my BFF.

[xSouthernEdgex]

I'm sorry if this upsets the vegans but I doubt I could live without meat.(Not like I'm addicted but because its delicious) it might be terrible I know but isn't it natural? Plants are living. Should we feel bad for destroying plants? If pain is an issue then if we kill an animal painlessly is it not the same as killing a plant(assuming plants are being "killed" as such and feel no pain).

I'm not trying to assault vegans or vegetarians. I support you and your choices. I'm just trying to pull out some more oppinions.
I've accepted noones oppinions will change on this thread so I'm just bringing up situations to view other oppinions NOT to try and prove anyone else wrong.

[xTonyThreatx]

I'm sorry if this upsets the vegans but I doubt I could live without meat.(Not like I'm addicted but because its delicious) it might be terrible I know but isn't it natural? Plants are living. Should we feel bad for destroying plants? If pain is an issue then if we kill an animal painlessly is it not the same as killing a plant(assuming plants are being "killed" as such and feel no pain).

I'm not trying to assault vegans or vegetarians. I support you and your choices. I'm just trying to pull out some more oppinions.
I've accepted noones oppinions will change on this thread so I'm just bringing up situations to view other oppinions NOT to try and prove anyone else wrong.

For some reason, this reminded me of PETV (People for the Ethical Treatment of Vegetables) (http://www.petv.org/), they make an argument that vegetables feel pain. Pretty funny.

But anyways... I don't eat meat or their products because I feel I don't have the right. We share this little planet and (in a perfect world) we should all be able to live in peace without eating each-other. (Especially these days with SO many other options)
I haven't been vegan too long, but it was one of the easiest choices I've made. Which is saying a lot coming from someone who's diet consisted almost solely of meat and animal products. I thought I couldn't do it because I hate vegetables. But it turns out I don't have to eat them.

As for caffeine, my goal for the year is to stop consuming it. I mean, it doesn't cause that big of a negative effect, but I know it can't be good when I go without it and I have withdrawals.

[CarlaRant]

I'm sorry if this upsets the vegans but I doubt I could live without meat.(Not like I'm addicted but because its delicious) it might be terrible I know but isn't it natural? Plants are living. Should we feel bad for destroying plants? If pain is an issue then if we kill an animal painlessly is it not the same as killing a plant(assuming plants are being "killed" as such and feel no pain).

I'm not trying to assault vegans or vegetarians. I support you and your choices. I'm just trying to pull out some more oppinions.
I've accepted noones oppinions will change on this thread so I'm just bringing up situations to view other oppinions NOT to try and prove anyone else wrong.

I always find it humorous when people apologize for eating meat. When people find out I'm veg, they always start by apologizing and it makes me wonder if they ever had a bad encounter with a militant veg*n. It's your choice, not mine.

[xflintsxfinestx]

i love meat but caffine sucks i just drink water and if i am really trying to party i drink sprite. but if you drink caffine its still edge.

[straightXed]

i love meat but caffine sucks i just drink water and if i am really trying to party i drink sprite. but if you drink caffine its still edge.

So straight edge isn't against recreational drug use?

[xTonyThreatx]

I always find it humorous when people apologize for eating meat. When people find out I'm veg, they always start by apologizing and it makes me wonder if they ever had a bad encounter with a militant veg*n. It's your choice, not mine.
Yeah, that's the same way I feel.
I have had my encounters with judgmental vegans, that's wrong. Everyone has their own morals. But they tend to be especially judgmental when your just a vegetarian for some reason...

[XAdrenalineX]

You don't need caffeine either! And it does effect you even if you think it doesn't or are only concerned about effecting the mind.

Meh, some stuff I like contains caffeine, I don't experience any withdrawals or drug like effects, I'm not going to cut them out because they could be argued to be a drug.

While obviously I refuse to use any mind altering substances, or I wouldn't be in here, I'm not overly concerned with cutting out any little thing that could be seen as a narcotic.

Sugar could be considered a drug. Common salt slightly stimulates the adrenal glands. Should I give up those too?

[D1988]

Meh, some stuff I like contains caffeine, I don't experience any withdrawals or drug like effects, I'm not going to cut them out because they could be argued to be a drug.

While obviously I refuse to use any mind altering substances, or I wouldn't be in here, I'm not overly concerned with cutting out any little thing that could be seen as a narcotic.

Sugar could be considered a drug. Common salt slightly stimulates the adrenal glands. Should I give up those too?

No, sugar and salt are not drugs. Caffeine is a drug though, there is no arguing about it being a drug either.

It is also a mind altering drug whether you choose to believe it or not.

[xflintsxfinestx]

you can argue that pretty much everything is mind altering. but you show me a guy who will sell his kids for a monster energy drink and then i will agree that caffine is a drug.

[xsecx]

you can argue that pretty much everything is mind altering. but you show me a guy who will sell his kids for a monster energy drink and then i will agree that caffine is a drug.

caffeine is the most abused drug on earth. If your criteria about what drugs are "bad" are extremes, then I'd imagine you'd be ok with prescription drug abuse, marijuana, mdma and any other number of drugs that don't lead to harmful addictions.

the issue with caffeine is one of consistency. Caffeine is a drug. It is addictive. It is hypocritical to be against the use of recreational drugs and then use one, simply because it's socially accepted and if effects aren't that severe.

[D1988]

Dusty I think you should make an FAQ about caffeine.

Each of the 100 times this is discussed, people always come back with the same shit.

"Minor Threat drank coke so it's OK"

"I drink caffeine and it doesn't alter my mind so it's OK".

blah blah blah, you get the idea, an FAQ we could link to the hundreds of people who question this would save you and alot of other people on here alot of time with typing the same stuff over and over agian.

[straightXed]

Meh, some stuff I like contains caffeine, I don't experience any withdrawals or drug like effects, I'm not going to cut them out because they could be argued to be a drug.

there is no argument. it is a drug.


While obviously I refuse to use any mind altering substances, or I wouldn't be in here, I'm not overly concerned with cutting out any little thing that could be seen as a narcotic.

but that attitude could for someone else mean an occasional small glass of wine is omissible, you just end up moving away from a clear and definitive line and instead make a lot of grey area.


Sugar could be considered a drug. Common salt slightly stimulates the adrenal glands. Should I give up those too?

sugar is not a drug its a food. You can consider it what you like, consider it a spaceship if you like but its not a spaceship and its not a drug. Stimulating a gland is not the definition of a drug, a million and one things stimulate glands that no one in their right mind would consider a drug so why salt? Again salt is a food and we need it, caffeine on the other hand is a drug and we don't need it. You use it because you aren't bothered enough to omit it due to some slight inconvenience it may cause. As for your question of should you give up the foods salts and sugar...well thats up to you but seeing as they aren't drugs i am very curious as to why you would?

[XAdrenalineX]

but that attitude could for someone else mean an occasional small glass of wine is omissible, you just end up moving away from a clear and definitive line and instead make a lot of grey area.


Not if you decide on a definition.

To me anyway if it alters your mind and makes you not yourself, it's a drug.


sugar is not a drug its a food.

Not according to the neurologist Candace Pert. In her book Molecules of Emotion she describes it as acting like a drug.

There are some SXEs who even abstain from refined sugar because it may make you hyperactive.

[CarlaRant]

Try teaching a classroom of kids after they've had birthday cake and tell me that sugar isn't a drug.

I've never heard of edgers avoiding sugar for strictly sxe reasons. However, there is the debate about white sugar in veg*n circles. It's said that white sugar is run through bone char. (Althouh I don't find it to be much of a debate since the sugar companies will admit to using bone char and other sources, such as PETA and VegFamily, has verified it.)

[Segadoway]

Try teaching a classroom of kids after they've had birthday cake and tell me that sugar isn't a drug.

I've never heard of edgers avoiding sugar for strictly sxe reasons. However, there is the debate about white sugar in veg*n circles. It's said that white sugar is run through bone char. (Althouh I don't find it to be much of a debate since the sugar companies will admit to using bone char and other sources, such as PETA and VegFamily, has verified it.)

i am have sucrase deficiency so i cant eat cane sugars, my diet is really shitty...........

[xflintsxfinestx]

caffeine is the most abused drug on earth. If your criteria about what drugs are "bad" are extremes, then I'd imagine you'd be ok with prescription drug abuse, marijuana, mdma and any other number of drugs that don't lead to harmful addictions.

the issue with caffeine is one of consistency. Caffeine is a drug. It is addictive. It is hypocritical to be against the use of recreational drugs and then use one, simply because it's socially accepted and if effects aren't that severe.

its funny that you say i would be ok with perscription drug abuse because that is what im brother died from. i know the severity of drugs all to well. i know what it is like to grow up with an alcoholic father, i know what it is like to have your shit stolen from you because of a junkie of a brother. i know what its like to visit him in prison. i know what its like to listen to his lies and then watch him steal money from my parents. and i know what it is like to identify him in a morgue and i know what it is like to bury him. so sorry if your facts dont change my ideas on caffine. if my brother would have just been drinking pop instead of robbing pharmacies for oxycotons then his 3 kids would still have a dad.
Caffine isnt a drug

[straightXed]

its funny that you say i would be ok with perscription drug abuse because that is what im brother died from. i know the severity of drugs all to well. i know what it is like to grow up with an alcoholic father, i know what it is like to have your shit stolen from you because of a junkie of a brother. i know what its like to visit him in prison. i know what its like to listen to his lies and then watch him steal money from my parents. and i know what it is like to identify him in a morgue and i know what it is like to bury him. so sorry if your facts dont change my ideas on caffine. if my brother would have just been drinking pop instead of robbing pharmacies for oxycotons then his 3 kids would still have a dad.
Caffine isnt a drug


caffeine is a drug, if you can find evidence it isn't i would love to read it.

[straightXed]

Try teaching a classroom of kids after they've had birthday cake and tell me that sugar isn't a drug.

It isn't a drug.


I've never heard of edgers avoiding sugar for strictly sxe reasons. However, there is the debate about white sugar in veg*n circles. It's said that white sugar is run through bone char. (Althouh I don't find it to be much of a debate since the sugar companies will admit to using bone char and other sources, such as PETA and VegFamily, has verified it.)

For any UK vegans, sugar here is hardly ever passed through bone char, major UK sugar suppliers do not use this method. Just something i found out from my time as a vegan.

[straightXed]

Not if you decide on a definition.

To me anyway if it alters your mind and makes you not yourself, it's a drug.

A definition that doesn't run consistanly? Like straight edge is against recreational drug use except this drug!! It raises questions...why that drug? Why not other drugs? it means you aren't against recreational drug use, it means you are against some recreational drug use but not all...hence grey area.




Not according to the neurologist Candace Pert. In her book Molecules of Emotion she describes it as acting like a drug.

There are some SXEs who even abstain from refined sugar because it may make you hyperactive.

I think you may be getting the wrong end of the stick here. Does pert say it is a drug or that it acts like a drug? Because many people say TV acts like a drug...or video games...or a myriad of other things but these things are not drugs and do not fit with what chemically makes a substance a drug.

As for abstaining from sugar...well it goes beyond straightedge as its abstinance of a substance that isn't a drug.

[xsecx]

its funny that you say i would be ok with perscription drug abuse because that is what im brother died from. i know the severity of drugs all to well. i know what it is like to grow up with an alcoholic father, i know what it is like to have your shit stolen from you because of a junkie of a brother. i know what its like to visit him in prison. i know what its like to listen to his lies and then watch him steal money from my parents. and i know what it is like to identify him in a morgue and i know what it is like to bury him. so sorry if your facts dont change my ideas on caffine. if my brother would have just been drinking pop instead of robbing pharmacies for oxycotons then his 3 kids would still have a dad.
Caffine isnt a drug

that's certainly a sad story, and I feel bad for your loss, however that doesn't really have anything do with what's being discussed or how you're classifying what is and isn't a drug. There are lots of people who abuse prescription pills that don't end up like your brother, who don't steal or wind up in jail. The same people people who use marijuana or nicotine or mdma or a bunch of other things you'd call drugs. So what's wrong with weed? Or mdma? Or tobacco? I mean. let's look at nicotine. You'd call that a drug right? So what is so different from nicotine and caffeine that makes one ok and one not? Both are addictive. Neither have serious side effects.

[xflintsxfinestx]

that's certainly a sad story, and I feel bad for your loss, however that doesn't really have anything do with what's being discussed or how you're classifying what is and isn't a drug. There are lots of people who abuse prescription pills that don't end up like your brother, who don't steal or wind up in jail. The same people people who use marijuana or nicotine or mdma or a bunch of other things you'd call drugs. So what's wrong with weed? Or mdma? Or tobacco? I mean. let's look at nicotine. You'd call that a drug right? So what is so different from nicotine and caffeine that makes one ok and one not? Both are addictive. Neither have serious side effects.

it has everything to do with what is being discussed. the question is is caffine edge or not. well since being straightedge only has to do with what you as your self believes than in my eyes caffine is not a drug. i have seen what drugs and alcohol do. ive seen what drugdealers and junkies do. you care to much about dissagreeing with everyone else. you also care to much about what other people do. if it is not effecting me or my group i dont give 2 fucks what people do. if you want to do drugs do them that doesnt change the fact that i wont and it doesnt make me anyless starightedge.

[xsecx]

it has everything to do with what is being discussed. the question is is caffine edge or not. well since being straightedge only has to do with what you as your self believes than in my eyes caffine is not a drug. i have seen what drugs and alcohol do. ive seen what drugdealers and junkies do. you care to much about dissagreeing with everyone else. you also care to much about what other people do. if it is not effecting me or my group i dont give 2 fucks what people do. if you want to do drugs do them that doesnt change the fact that i wont and it doesnt make me anyless starightedge.

you're not really one for critical thought or introspection are you? You're not even really concerned with the question, since you go off on emotional tangents rather than answering questions or spend any time looking at why you believe what you believe, other than "I've seen what junkies do, drugs are bad, but just some drugs are bad, but junkies are bad so unless a drug turns you into a junkie, it's not a drug, except those ones that don't, but they're bad because they're sold be drug dealers" Put all of that bullshit aside, and actually answer this: what makes something a drug that someone is straight edge should avoid?

[xflintsxfinestx]

you're not really one for critical thought or introspection are you? You're not even really concerned with the question, since you go off on emotional tangents rather than answering questions or spend any time looking at why you believe what you believe, other than "I've seen what junkies do, drugs are bad, but just some drugs are bad, but junkies are bad so unless a drug turns you into a junkie, it's not a drug, except those ones that don't, but they're bad because they're sold be drug dealers" Put all of that bullshit aside, and actually answer this: what makes something a drug that someone is straight edge should avoid?

you are to concerened with generalizing things that cant be. i cant tell what someone should avoid i can only tell you what i avoid and why. its absolutely true i go off on emotional tangents this is an emothional thing to me. its my life. you are a cut and dry live by the rules guy. thats fine thats your thing but just because i dont follow a set of rules or try to make it a set of rules doesnt make me wrong. see you are wrong i spent a long time looking at what i believe and why i believe it and i can give specific reasons why i am straightedge not just because drugs are bad. you keep typing things i never said.never said that drugs have to make you a junkie or be sold by drug dealers to be bad. and i did answer the question i think you are still srtaightedge if you drink caffine. im sorry that i have real life experience with things and i base my beliefs off of them. i guess that is my fault that i would make a decision to be straightedge cause i dont want to be a piece of shit like my brother or father. i should have just said i am edge cause of minor threat and all the stuff i have read. sorry my bad who am i to take shitty experiences and learn from them. caffine isnt a drug in my eyes.

[xsecx]

you are to concerened with generalizing things that cant be. i cant tell what someone should avoid i can only tell you what i avoid and why. its absolutely true i go off on emotional tangents this is an emothional thing to me. its my life. you are a cut and dry live by the rules guy. thats fine thats your thing but just because i dont follow a set of rules or try to make it a set of rules doesnt make me wrong. see you are wrong i spent a long time looking at what i believe and why i believe it and i can give specific reasons why i am straightedge not just because drugs are bad. you keep typing things i never said.never said that drugs have to make you a junkie or be sold by drug dealers to be bad. and i did answer the question i think you are still srtaightedge if you drink caffine. im sorry that i have real life experience with things and i base my beliefs off of them. i guess that is my fault that i would make a decision to be straightedge cause i dont want to be a piece of shit like my brother or father. i should have just said i am edge cause of minor threat and all the stuff i have read. sorry my bad who am i to take shitty experiences and learn from them. caffine isnt a drug in my eyes.

you can't even answer a simple and direct question? The part you fail to understand, because you're not trying, you're just reacting and not thinking, is that it comes down to thought. You're clearly a guy who reacts to things, rather than someone who looks at it, and figures out how they're going to respond. I just find it odd that you can call yourself straight edge, but you can't really verbalize how you decide what substances and behavior is wrong and what isn't. Or are you saying that the only way you know what to do or not to do is based on what experiences other people around you have done?

I just want to know how nicotine is a drug and caffeine isn't.

[straightXed]

it has everything to do with what is being discussed. the question is is caffine edge or not. well since being straightedge only has to do with what you as your self believes than in my eyes caffine is not a drug. i have seen what drugs and alcohol do. ive seen what drugdealers and junkies do. you care to much about dissagreeing with everyone else. you also care to much about what other people do. if it is not effecting me or my group i dont give 2 fucks what people do. if you want to do drugs do them that doesnt change the fact that i wont and it doesnt make me anyless starightedge.

Thats hilarious, so you are essentially saying if i personally decide that crack, alcohol and amphetamine aren't drugs then i can still go around and claim to be drug free and straightedge whilst high as a kite. You are saying that what qualifies a drug as a drug is if i decide its a drug or not...disregarding all science, knowledge and facts about what makes a drug a drug.

If thats the extent of your argument of why caffeine is not a drug then i have to say its a pretty piss poor case although it does seem like a wonderful world you live in, where you can change the fabric of reality by deciding that reality is no longer so. As wonderful as it is though i think i will stick with a stable reality where facts remain facts unless proven otherwise by other facts.

[xflintsxfinestx]

Thats hilarious, so you are essentially saying if i personally decide that crack, alcohol and amphetamine aren't drugs then i can still go around and claim to be drug free and straightedge whilst high as a kite. You are saying that what qualifies a drug as a drug is if i decide its a drug or not...disregarding all science, knowledge and facts about what makes a drug a drug.

If thats the extent of your argument of why caffeine is not a drug then i have to say its a pretty piss poor case although it does seem like a wonderful world you live in, where you can change the fabric of reality by deciding that reality is no longer so. As wonderful as it is though i think i will stick with a stable reality where facts remain facts unless proven otherwise by other facts.

it absolutely is a wonderful world i live in where i can make choices for myself. where my lifestyle choices are based on what i believe and not what you believe. fuck yeah you can be high as a kite and call yourself straightedge that is your choice. i dont give a shit what you choose to do with your life.
so if we are going to go by what science says then love is not straightedge it is mind altering. sex is not edge because it is mind altering and introduces substances to the body that change the way we feel and act.

the funny thing is i am more based in reality than you are. you base your beliefs on books and facts that others have proven thats fine. i am more of a hands on kind of guy. i base my lifestyle choice on what i grew up around not what i am told. do i agree with a guy who drinks and says he is sxe no but he can do whatever the fuck he or she wants its there life.

[xflintsxfinestx]

you can't even answer a simple and direct question? The part you fail to understand, because you're not trying, you're just reacting and not thinking, is that it comes down to thought. You're clearly a guy who reacts to things, rather than someone who looks at it, and figures out how they're going to respond. I just find it odd that you can call yourself straight edge, but you can't really verbalize how you decide what substances and behavior is wrong and what isn't. Or are you saying that the only way you know what to do or not to do is based on what experiences other people around you have done?

I just want to know how nicotine is a drug and caffeine isn't.

well i would consider nicotine a drug because extented use will cause cancer and kill you.

My question for you is why is it so wrong in your eyes to learn from experience? i
and it is not the only way i learn it has just been the best way for me to learn. i dont need to read that crack is bad to know ive seen what crack does.

[xsecx]

well i would consider nicotine a drug because extented use will cause cancer and kill you.

no it doesn't. tobacco does, but there are ways to get a nicotine fix that doesn't lead to cancer. Do you really think that long term heavy caffeine usage doesn't have health effects like how heavy smoking will lead to cancer?



My question for you is why is it so wrong in your eyes to learn from experience? i
and it is not the only way i learn it has just been the best way for me to learn. i dont need to read that crack is bad to know ive seen what crack does.

I never said that it was. It's a valuable thing, but if you rely on it alone then you end up not able to deal with new things as they come up. In my world I have a criteria that I live by. I don't do drugs for recreation. I don't have to wait to see how each drug effects someone else to decide if it's something I should do or not for fun.

[xflintsxfinestx]

no it doesn't. tobacco does, but there are ways to get a nicotine fix that doesn't lead to cancer. Do you really think that long term heavy caffeine usage doesn't have health effects like how heavy smoking will lead to cancer?



I never said that it was. It's a valuable thing, but if you rely on it alone then you end up not able to deal with new things as they come up. In my world I have a criteria that I live by. I don't do drugs for recreation. I don't have to wait to see how each drug effects someone else to decide if it's something I should do or not for fun.

i dont have to wait for anything its just how i grew up. i have common sense i dont have to watch bad things happen to know that they are bad. you talk to me like im an idiot. its funny. i gaurntee you wouldnt do that shit in person. the wonders of the internet. you talk down to alot of people ive noticed you think your intelect makes you superior to other people. its funny cause your point making pot shot taking bullshit wouldnt last 2 minutes out here. you make me laugh. everything is cut and dry. black and white. whats wrong is wrong and what you say is right. but i can tell by the way you talk down to people you live a sheltered life. you cant base things on experiences cause this is your forum for discussion. this is just entertainment for me but this is the only place you express your views casue this pompiss asshole thing you got going on just doesnt fly around real situations

[D1988]

i dont have to wait for anything its just how i grew up. i have common sense i dont have to watch bad things happen to know that they are bad. you talk to me like im an idiot. its funny. i gaurntee you wouldnt do that shit in person. the wonders of the internet. you talk down to alot of people ive noticed you think your intelect makes you superior to other people. its funny cause your point making pot shot taking bullshit wouldnt last 2 minutes out here. you make me laugh. everything is cut and dry. black and white. whats wrong is wrong and what you say is right. but i can tell by the way you talk down to people you live a sheltered life. you cant base things on experiences cause this is your forum for discussion. this is just entertainment for me but this is the only place you express your views casue this pompiss asshole thing you got going on just doesnt fly around real situations

I've been waiting for you to result to threats. And you haven't disappointed me.

If you brought this exact discussion up with Dusty in person, I gaurantee he would say exactly what he is saying here. He should maybe watch out though, because out there in bandit country, dude would get his teeth smashed in, right? Out there you guys are all mad crazy and hurt people expressing opinions you don't like.

[mouseman004]

i dont have to wait for anything its just how i grew up. i have common sense i dont have to watch bad things happen to know that they are bad. you talk to me like im an idiot. its funny. i gaurntee you wouldnt do that shit in person. the wonders of the internet. you talk down to alot of people ive noticed you think your intelect makes you superior to other people. its funny cause your point making pot shot taking bullshit wouldnt last 2 minutes out here. you make me laugh. everything is cut and dry. black and white. whats wrong is wrong and what you say is right. but i can tell by the way you talk down to people you live a sheltered life. you cant base things on experiences cause this is your forum for discussion. this is just entertainment for me but this is the only place you express your views casue this pompiss asshole thing you got going on just doesnt fly around real situations


You talk a lot about the wonders of the internet, but I guarantee you that anybody who has disagreed with something you said on this board would be willing to say it to your face. I know I would be, and I am fairly certain that Ed, Dusty and Dean would all be willing to say these same things to you in person.

[xsecx]

i dont have to wait for anything its just how i grew up. i have common sense i dont have to watch bad things happen to know that they are bad. you talk to me like im an idiot. its funny. i gaurntee you wouldnt do that shit in person. the wonders of the internet. you talk down to alot of people ive noticed you think your intelect makes you superior to other people. its funny cause your point making pot shot taking bullshit wouldnt last 2 minutes out here. you make me laugh. everything is cut and dry. black and white. whats wrong is wrong and what you say is right. but i can tell by the way you talk down to people you live a sheltered life. you cant base things on experiences cause this is your forum for discussion. this is just entertainment for me but this is the only place you express your views casue this pompiss asshole thing you got going on just doesnt fly around real situations

and you wonder why people lump crew kids as nothing but jocks who can't deal with anything without resorting to threats and physical action. Based on what you've talked about how you live your life, then yeah I feel pretty confident in saying that my life is better than yours. You also don't strike me as the kind of person capable of having a conversation about anything of substance. But I appreciate your attempts to know where I came from or what I'm about, I just think it's funny that you've spent all this time with a really shitty hard life and you haven't figured out any way to make it any better. Some of us grew up in hard times and rough places but were also smart enough not to stay there. I think it's hilarious that you can't even have a decent discussion with people and just keep reinforcing stereotypes about kids in crews being meatheads.

[xsecx]

it absolutely is a wonderful world i live in where i can make choices for myself. where my lifestyle choices are based on what i believe and not what you believe. fuck yeah you can be high as a kite and call yourself straightedge that is your choice. i dont give a shit what you choose to do with your life.

weren't you the same dude that said that bands that used to be straight edge but aren't anymore should be beat up?

[CarlaRant]

For any UK vegans, sugar here is hardly ever passed through bone char, major UK sugar suppliers do not use this method. Just something i found out from my time as a vegan.

I think that's because Europe overall is more cautious about mad cow disease. I enjoyed all the veganized versions of candy when I was visiting the UK. Starbursts, Skittles, and marshmallows didn't have gelatin in them....mmm.

[Segadoway]

I think that's because Europe overall is more cautious about mad cow disease. I enjoyed all the veganized versions of candy when I was visiting the UK. Starbursts, Skittles, and marshmallows didn't have gelatin in them....mmm.

i want to go to a place with no gluten in the food :(

[CarlaRant]

I hear you. My nutritionist doesn't want me eating gluten, which I found is very difficult. Are you allergic?

[straightXed]

it absolutely is a wonderful world i live in where i can make choices for myself. where my lifestyle choices are based on what i believe and not what you believe. fuck yeah you can be high as a kite and call yourself straightedge that is your choice. i dont give a shit what you choose to do with your life.
so if we are going to go by what science says then love is not straightedge it is mind altering. sex is not edge because it is mind altering and introduces substances to the body that change the way we feel and act.

When did science establish love as a drug? I think you are getting rather confused now, love and sex are not drugs and science doesn't say they are. Perhaps you should research this a bit more. Or is this a case of "science is whatever you decide it to be" like straightedge? And sure, you could call yourself straightedge and be as high as a kite but you would be incredibly wrong and completely contrary to what you say you believe. What you are saying is you can take drugs and say you don't take drugs, if you can't see the flaw in that then its a real shame on your part.


the funny thing is i am more based in reality than you are. you base your beliefs on books and facts that others have proven thats fine. i am more of a hands on kind of guy. i base my lifestyle choice on what i grew up around not what i am told. do i agree with a guy who drinks and says he is sxe no but he can do whatever the fuck he or she wants its there life.

You are in the reality of cloud cuckoo, thats whats funny about it. And now you are going to say that established facts and science didn't happen in reality? Seriously dude, get a grip of your dellusions. All this banter trying to say i do what i am told etc. its way out there and is complete nonsense. And yeah, they can do whatever they want but you seem to miss the rather large point is that what they are doing isn't what they say they stand for. Its incorrect and gives an incorrect impression to others, it creates inconsistancy which lends itself to making it a vauge and meaningless concept.

[straightXed]

I think that's because Europe overall is more cautious about mad cow disease. I enjoyed all the veganized versions of candy when I was visiting the UK. Starbursts, Skittles, and marshmallows didn't have gelatin in them....mmm.

I don't think the sugar refining really has anything to do with BSE, its just the process wasn't as popular here and different methods were used. If anything was a driving factor it would be cost. They tend to change the ingredients periodically, i know they used to use shellac but use carnauba wax now, that said i don't know many vegans who really worry about shellac. I hope you didn't take any sour skittles home with you?

[xflintsxfinestx]

I've been waiting for you to result to threats. And you haven't disappointed me.

If you brought this exact discussion up with Dusty in person, I gaurantee he would say exactly what he is saying here. He should maybe watch out though, because out there in bandit country, dude would get his teeth smashed in, right? Out there you guys are all mad crazy and hurt people expressing opinions you don't like.

my question is what part of that was a threat. i dont see a threat in there. nope we are not all mad crazy and hurt people who express there opinions but i put money on the fact that all of you would be alot more civil with the way you talk in person.

[xflintsxfinestx]

weren't you the same dude that said that bands that used to be straight edge but aren't anymore should be beat up?

no i said sellout straightedge bands who still do straightedge songs should be beat up. just because i believe that everyone one can have there own opinion doesnt mean they dont have to take responsibilty for the things they say and do

[xflintsxfinestx]

You talk a lot about the wonders of the internet, but I guarantee you that anybody who has disagreed with something you said on this board would be willing to say it to your face. I know I would be, and I am fairly certain that Ed, Dusty and Dean would all be willing to say these same things to you in person.

i am fairly certain you wont cross that bridge and talk down to me like you are superior to me just because you believe that caffine is a drug cause that is what your boys on here are doing

[xsecx]

no i said sellout straightedge bands who still do straightedge songs should be beat up. just because i believe that everyone one can have there own opinion doesnt mean they dont have to take responsibilty for the things they say and do

so how does that jive with this "fuck yeah you can be high as a kite and call yourself straightedge that is your choice. i dont give a shit what you choose to do with your life."

[xsecx]

i am fairly certain you wont cross that bridge and talk down to me like you are superior to me just because you believe that caffine is a drug cause that is what your boys on here are doing

Did it ever occur to you that people are talking down to you based on the fact that you haven't been able to have a civil discussion or answer basic questions?

[xTonyThreatx]

For all of you that think caffeine doesn't have negative effects, I think this spider would beg to differ:
http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb242/VEN8M/Caffeinated_spiderwebs.jpg

[xflintsxfinestx]

and you wonder why people lump crew kids as nothing but jocks who can't deal with anything without resorting to threats and physical action. Based on what you've talked about how you live your life, then yeah I feel pretty confident in saying that my life is better than yours. You also don't strike me as the kind of person capable of having a conversation about anything of substance. But I appreciate your attempts to know where I came from or what I'm about, I just think it's funny that you've spent all this time with a really shitty hard life and you haven't figured out any way to make it any better. Some of us grew up in hard times and rough places but were also smart enough not to stay there. I think it's hilarious that you can't even have a decent discussion with people and just keep reinforcing stereotypes about kids in crews being meatheads.

oh so im stupid because i am workingclass. because i have a decent paying job with out a college degree that makes me stupid. how havent i made my life better? because i live in a shitty area?
also you havent tried to have a conversation with me yet. i state my opinion and you go on the attack to prove i am wrong. im glad to see that your superiority complex came out when you told me that you have a better life than mine. but how do you measure that? because you can type a bunch of bullshit and be little me for going through some shitty times? you really have the a problem with the fact that i have real reasons of why i am straightedge other than being cool? you throw my situation in my face like i am ashamed of it. i didnt come up like you and i dont have the education that you do i will admit that but i too have an education in life that you dont. we could probably learn alot from one another if you could except you look down for the way i have lived my life. which is fine but dont say ive threatened you i havent tthreatened anyone. i just made an observation thats all.

[xflintsxfinestx]

so how does that jive with this "fuck yeah you can be high as a kite and call yourself straightedge that is your choice. i dont give a shit what you choose to do with your life."

its easy you can say whatever you want it doesnt mean shit wont happen to you. its just like anyone has the freedom to walk around wearing swastikas and yelling racial bullshit. its his right but he also must except the responsibilty if things happen

[xsecx]

oh so im stupid because i am workingclass. because i have a decent paying job with out a college degree that makes me stupid. how havent i made my life better? because i live in a shitty area?
also you havent tried to have a conversation with me yet. i state my opinion and you go on the attack to prove i am wrong. im glad to see that your superiority complex came out when you told me that you have a better life than mine. but how do you measure that? because you can type a bunch of bullshit and be little me for going through some shitty times? you really have the a problem with the fact that i have real reasons of why i am straightedge other than being cool? you throw my situation in my face like i am ashamed of it. i didnt come up like you and i dont have the education that you do i will admit that but i too have an education in life that you dont. we could probably learn alot from one another if you could except you look down for the way i have lived my life. which is fine but dont say ive threatened you i havent tthreatened anyone. i just made an observation thats all.

I'd just like to point out that I don't have a college degree either and was only at college for 3 semesters. Like I said, you're making an awful lot of assumptions about me. The only problem I've had with you is that people have tried to discuss something with you, and you go off on tangents that don't really have anything to do with what's being discussed. How your brother died and the fact that your father was an alcoholic definitely shaped your life and how you view things, but it doesn't make sense when people are talking about caffeine and it's effects. You talk about how you don't view it as a drug and talk about what happens with real drugs, but you completely ignored my points about drugs that don't end in death or jail. I also think that because you've been so stuck in the cycle of violence that you don't even see it anymore. In your world it's fear or be feared, and real life for most people just isn't like that and dude, I've got not real reason to fear you, so I don't see a reason why I should act like I do.

[xsecx]

its easy you can say whatever you want it doesnt mean shit wont happen to you. its just like anyone has the freedom to walk around wearing swastikas and yelling racial bullshit. its his right but he also must except the responsibilty if things happen

yeah, but then saying you don't give a shit isn't accurate. Are you really going to tell me that if some kid was x'd up and wearing an edge shirt and was drinking a beer you wouldn't care?

[xflintsxfinestx]

yeah, but then saying you don't give a shit isn't accurate. Are you really going to tell me that if some kid was x'd up and wearing an edge shirt and was drinking a beer you wouldn't care?

let me clear that up. when i say i dont give a shit i mean i cnat tell people how to live their lives they can do what they do and i mean yeah a few years ago i really would have freaked out about that but anymore fuckem they look like the retards. now if they want to flaunt it in my face and make sure they are being dissrespectful to me than that is different. but if some drunk asshole wants to wear straightedge clothes have at it

[xflintsxfinestx]

I'd just like to point out that I don't have a college degree either and was only at college for 3 semesters. Like I said, you're making an awful lot of assumptions about me. The only problem I've had with you is that people have tried to discuss something with you, and you go off on tangents that don't really have anything to do with what's being discussed. How your brother died and the fact that your father was an alcoholic definitely shaped your life and how you view things, but it doesn't make sense when people are talking about caffeine and it's effects. You talk about how you don't view it as a drug and talk about what happens with real drugs, but you completely ignored my points about drugs that don't end in death or jail. I also think that because you've been so stuck in the cycle of violence that you don't even see it anymore. In your world it's fear or be feared, and real life for most people just isn't like that and dude, I've got not real reason to fear you, so I don't see a reason why I should act like I do.

i dont want you to fear me. im not looking for that. the whole brother father thing came up cause you said i probably didnt consider perscription drug abuse wrong. and i just brought up my personal happening with that. and i did answer the question i said i didnt believe that caffine is not edge. all i said was i never saw a guy sell his kid for a monster. but you went on to tell me how im not straightedge and my beliefs are fucked. so now all i have been doing is to defend myself. sorry if my veiws are different than yours but thats how i know drugs around here they end in death or jail. in all honesty we are all just trying to be the best versions of us we can be just because the paths we take to reach that are different doesnt make them wrong. i feel you are sweating a petty thing that doesnt effect people like ohter serious things do around here. i never seen friends of mine make horrible life decisions on caffine so why worry about it. i am happier to try ad keep kids away from weed and coke and crack around here cause it leads to alot more serious shit than caffine leads too. thats all im sayin

[xsecx]

i dont want you to fear me. im not looking for that. the whole brother father thing came up cause you said i probably didnt consider perscription drug abuse wrong. and i just brought up my personal happening with that. and i did answer the question i said i didnt believe that caffine is not edge. all i said was i never saw a guy sell his kid for a monster. but you went on to tell me how im not straightedge and my beliefs are fucked. so now all i have been doing is to defend myself. sorry if my veiws are different than yours but thats how i know drugs around here they end in death or jail. in all honesty we are all just trying to be the best versions of us we can be just because the paths we take to reach that are different doesnt make them wrong. i feel you are sweating a petty thing that doesnt effect people like ohter serious things do around here. i never seen friends of mine make horrible life decisions on caffine so why worry about it. i am happier to try ad keep kids away from weed and coke and crack around here cause it leads to alot more serious shit than caffine leads too. thats all im sayin

yeah, but the way you carry yourself, even how you express yourself, you do. It may not be intentional or you may not conscious of how you come across, but you make it really clear that you're a tough guy and aren't afraid of a fight. I never said that you weren't straight edge or that your beliefs were fucked. I was however pointing out that they're not necessarily based on any kind of consistent logic. I also think we've just hit a really big misunderstanding. I'm not saying that caffeine is a serious drug. i don't believe that it is. I do however believe in consistency in message. In being above reproach. In being a role model. I believe that if someone thinks that doing drugs is wrong that they should be consistent in that view point. I think people drinking energy drinks isn't all that different from someone drinking a beer when they get home from work. I think both are unnecessary and are being used as crutches.

[HardCore HardHead]

I dont eat meat because it is uneeded crulety in a already cruel world. I try to avoid caffine when i can because, my mom has been drinking it her whole life, and now she is having sever cravings and major head aches when she does not get it. I find that creepy. I can't afford to get addicted to anything else.

[Sociocidal]

ok i reeeealy should have posted again on this sooner :p well since starting this i have given up redbull and other such bevriages after i woke up one morning with the heart rate of a frightened squirrel, but still drinks me my coffee.. simply because i love coffee.. As for meat ill always eat it. Not going to apologise for it, because i dont see why i have too... but yeah i did try giving up meat a while ago but got really sick... lack of protien... im like six foot and weigh 105kg but it is honest to god muscle so you figure that one out:p I do however respect vegetarian idealisms, it is a very commendable belief, aslong as you dont try and force it upon other people.. thats what nazis do....

[HardCore HardHead]

ha. Well i am glad you have cut back on the caffine. That can only help you. In the vegitarian buisness... well, i will certanly will not try to force or shame you into not consumming flesh =). But, if you made an effort once, and failed due to lack of proper nutrients, then you just didnt know what you were doing. There are SO many ways to get every thing you need with out meat. Every day i make my self a protien shake for example... most kinds of protien shakes taste close to dust, but if you shop around you can find some decent stuff. Also there are literaly hundreds of alternative mineral and protien sources. In my hand i am holding some TVP. It is textured vegtable protien. It looks and tastes like unsalted crutons. If you can figure out how to cook it, it will take on the taste of what ever you mix it with. For example, i amde a stir fry with TVP, rice, vegtable bulyon, and mushrooms. It was realy good and the best part was the TVP because it was the most flavorful. I am not saying you should not eat meat by any means. I am just saying, that, if you choose to eat meat on the pretense that you will lack essentail nutrients... then you are wrong. GL, i hope i don't come off as pushy ;)

I have a friend who is vegitarian and hates all vegtables exept for carrets. He basicly survives off of cheese and crakers... he does not understand why i take all these supplements... we are only in high school so he wont feel very bad untill he is supper malnureshed. i think

[Sociocidal]

see i did suppliment, and ate loads of nuts and the like, but there are types of fats that can only be gotten from meat, not everyone has a full need of them what with matbolic rates and what not, but it seems i do.. my best friend is veggie, suppliments and eats non stop but is REALLY under weight... like really.... Now once again i full respect the moral desicion, and am not ignorant to the fact that humans can survive and prosper without meat, but as evolutionary biology and biology in general has showen, our speices requires meat, it being the reason for our brains development to the size it is now in comparrison to other simians... now it is also a reason our speices is so overtly agressive......... but i digress :p

[HardCore HardHead]

hmm... well at least you tried man. Kudos for that. I think i would probably be in the same situation as your friend. Exept that i spend alot of time at my friends Ross and Skadi's house, they are both way deep into the whole vegitarian/vegan lifestyle. They make sure i get every thing i need, i eat normal portions at meals, i dont have to gorge on salad to get by... we make all sorts of great things that have many times the amino acids and protiens you need then meat. Like Skadi's chilly, scrumshus and amazing for you in every way.

You may have heard of my friend Ross, he wrote a book on sXe. He is pretty awsome. Got me into sXe and off drugs. love that dude.

[Sociocidal]

My good sir you make a very good point. I commend you. :)



God I love this forum! Understanding accepting discussions! A logical conversation, no name calling, no agression, just discussing a topic! I swear if we tried this exact same conversation on say youtube i promise in like four messages it would get violent! :) :)

[HardCore HardHead]

indublity.

(not a real word but sounds cool and smart at the same time.... succses)

[Segadoway]

My good sir you make a very good point. I commend you. :)



God I love this forum! Understanding accepting discussions! A logical conversation, no name calling, no agression, just discussing a topic! I swear if we tried this exact same conversation on say youtube i promise in like four messages it would get violent! :) :)

haha maybe in this topic........

[CarlaRant]

see i did suppliment, and ate loads of nuts and the like, but there are types of fats that can only be gotten from meat, not everyone has a full need of them what with matbolic rates and what not, but it seems i do.. my best friend is veggie, suppliments and eats non stop but is REALLY under weight... like really.... Now once again i full respect the moral desicion, and am not ignorant to the fact that humans can survive and prosper without meat, but as evolutionary biology and biology in general has showen, our speices requires meat, it being the reason for our brains development to the size it is now in comparrison to other simians... now it is also a reason our speices is so overtly agressive......... but i digress :p

I'm confused. Are you talking about Omega 3-6-9 oils/fats?

When you were trying the vegetarian diet, did you see a nutritionist or at least read up how to eat properly beforehand?

I've not met your friend, but it's quite possible that he has a high metabolic rate and with a low fat diet, he's naturally on the lower spectrum of the BMI. I know when I started eating veg (13 years old), I was very active and my metabolism was in overdrive and I looked very thin. That was until I turned 25, when I went through some major life changes; job, stress, diet, exercise shift. Now I look "normal."

[Sociocidal]

The he is actually a she... not being smart with you just clearing that up.. But yeah spoke to nutritionist and my martial arts trainer at the time. I did all this when i was about 16 so it was a while ago.. but i couldn't do with out meat... Physically couldn't work without it.

[HardCore HardHead]

weirdy =) I think if you tried again, i mean realy tried, you would do much better. Prehaps you are some sort of specail person, but i doubt that. Most likly you just didn't know that you were missing some component of your diet. I would just order a vegitarian or vegan cook book and try to eat only food prepared from it. Just for a little while untill you are sure you can't do it or you think you might have a shot this time. Of coarse, thats only if you wan't to be a vegitarian. I get the impression that you tried and failed, and now you are done. Am i right? I hope you will atleast try once more, if only for like two weeks.

[xxxfrekexxx]

http://www.edrinks.net/energy-drinks/caffeine-controversy.aspx

[xsecx]

http://www.edrinks.net/energy-drinks/caffeine-controversy.aspx

this is a great link, thanks for posting it.

[xxxfrekexxx]

Yeah. I thought it could bring some kind of perspective to some people in here. 😊

[xxxfrekexxx]

.....to those who don't see caffeine as a drug.

[Elixabeth96]

I don't consume caffeine in the form of coffee, sodas, energy drinks, and even cosmetic products. However, where do you stand on eating chocolate? I mean, it naturally has caffeine in it (although in very small portions as far as I know). I'm just curious on that one.
I eat meat because when i gave it up I got really sick, and it seemed counter-productive to health related morals. That's just my belief I suppose.

[CarlaRant]

I used to not eat chocolate when I first became edge because of the caffeine, but I now consider this extreme. Everyone needs to define their own morals and lifestyle guidelines.

Regarding the meat:

I first have a disclaimer: I am vegan. I have been vegan for nearly 15 years.

Next, I have a question: What do you mean by "really sick"? I hear this a lot when people explain to me (without my prompting mind
you) why they're not veg*n. What do you exactly mean by this statement? Did you feel light-headed, were you vomiting, and/or were you lacking energy?

My take: I think anyone who is looking to completely change his/her diet should see a DIETITIAN first - not a family doctor who only needed to take 9 credits of diet/nutrition while in medical school, but an honest to goodness DIETITIAN or NUTRITIONIST. The body is a miraculous machine that knows when something has changed and needs to learn how to handle such a drastic adjustment. There might be a period of discomfort - especially if a person doesn't know if they're allergic or will have trouble digesting new foods, such as an abundance of soy or nut products. For example, my husband was doing well on his vegetarian diet until we got married and I introduced tofu into his meal rotation. He was vomiting and getting migraines. Unfortunately, after taking him to my nutritionist we found out that he cannot digest tofu. Other soy-based products didn't seem to bother him; just tofu. Live and learn.

Another non-veggie related example is when I quit soda. I was drinking six Dr Pepper sodas a day before I became edge. When I decided to quit the stuff, I shook violently, had severe migraines, and was nauseous for days. Instead of saying, "Oh, this new diet of no-soda is making me sick; I should start drinking caffeine again" I knew my body was adjusting and would need time to come to terms with my lifestyle.

[xsecx]

I don't consume caffeine in the form of coffee, sodas, energy drinks, and even cosmetic products. However, where do you stand on eating chocolate? I mean, it naturally has caffeine in it (although in very small portions as far as I know). I'm just curious on that one.
I eat meat because when i gave it up I got really sick, and it seemed counter-productive to health related morals. That's just my belief I suppose.
I don't drink anything with caffeine added and will only drink decaffeinated coffee and tea. I will eat chocolate but consider it the same as i do decaf coffee and tea, a small amount that occurs naturally and not enough to effect me as a stimulant.

[xsecx]

I used to not eat chocolate when I first became edge because of the caffeine, but I now consider this extreme. Everyone needs to define their own morals and lifestyle guidelines.

Regarding the meat:

I first have a disclaimer: I am vegan. I have been vegan for nearly 15 years.

Next, I have a question: What do you mean by "really sick"? I hear this a lot when people explain to me (without my prompting mind
you) why they're not veg*n. What do you exactly mean by this statement? Did you feel light-headed, were you vomiting, and/or were you lacking energy?

My take: I think anyone who is looking to completely change his/her diet should see a DIETITIAN first - not a family doctor who only needed to take 9 credits of diet/nutrition while in medical school, but an honest to goodness DIETITIAN or NUTRITIONIST. The body is a miraculous machine that knows when something has changed and needs to learn how to handle such a drastic adjustment. There might be a period of discomfort - especially if a person doesn't know if they're allergic or will have trouble digesting new foods, such as an abundance of soy or nut products. For example, my husband was doing well on his vegetarian diet until we got married and I introduced tofu into his meal rotation. He was vomiting and getting migraines. Unfortunately, after taking him to my nutritionist we found out that he cannot digest tofu. Other soy-based products didn't seem to bother him; just tofu. Live and learn.

Another non-veggie related example is when I quit soda. I was drinking six Dr Pepper sodas a day before I became edge. When I decided to quit the stuff, I shook violently, had severe migraines, and was nauseous for days. Instead of saying, "Oh, this new diet of no-soda is making me sick; I should start drinking caffeine again" I knew my body was adjusting and would need time to come to terms with my lifestyle.

caffeine free dr pepper is good times.

[CarlaRant]

Yeah I had an ex-boyfriend who introduced that to me. It's nice at times, but I can easily overdo it on that stuff too. ;) Moderation is not part of my repertoire.

[Elixabeth96]

With caffeine I knew it was an addiction problem as apposed to a health problem. The migraines sucked, I'll admit. With meat, I would vomit, my hair was falling out, and although i couldn't sleep I couldn't manage to get up and do anything. I just felt overall horrible. I think I might attempt it a couple of years (I'd appreciate no hate for this, but I'm not even 18 yet) when choosing what I eat is actually my choice and not based on whatever is available (which isn't a lot).
I mean, I tried drinking protein shakes but it didn't help. Restricting my diet is also difficult because I'm a picky eater. It's not that I'm not willing to try things, but more along the lines of a lot of things make me sick. Maybe I need to get used to it, and I'll keep that in mind. However, I never really understood what was unhealthy about meat. I'd be willing to hear about it though, if anyone has an input on that.

[CarlaRant]

Whoa! That's rough stuff there! Yes, I would definitely say you'll need to get more information when you're able to make your food choices at home. I know what you mean - if I hadn't worked at a health food store when I was 16, I wouldn't have been able to supplement my diet. My parents still insist on eating white bread and canned veggies; which is not the most nutrient dense foods as you probably know.

Um, I think this conversation needs to move to the Veggie/Vegan forum if we're going to get into the details of meat consumption.

[straightXed]

Whoa! That's rough stuff there! Yes, I would definitely say you'll need to get more information when you're able to make your food choices at home. I know what you mean - if I hadn't worked at a health food store when I was 16, I wouldn't have been able to supplement my diet. My parents still insist on eating white bread and canned veggies; which is not the most nutrient dense foods as you probably know.

Um, I think this conversation needs to move to the Veggie/Vegan forum if we're going to get into the details of meat consumption.

Surely the vegan section is exactly the place not to be discussing the consumption of meat?

[CarlaRant]

:p

the negative side effects of meat consumptions