SxE question

[AtheistBassist]

i know theres no casual sex allowed, but can you be straight edge but have hookups (i.e. making out, but no sex)?

[MrMcKeigue]

If not, I'm a failure sXe.

[Pilaf]

If you're thinking about what's "allowed" you'd better step back and realize that the people who are gonna stick with this aren't following a set of rules at all. I choose not to participate in elements of the promiscuous sex popular culture because I personally find them distasteful, dishonest and potentially self destructive, not because straight edge told me I couldn't.

[xsecx]

i know theres no casual sex allowed, but can you be straight edge but have hookups (i.e. making out, but no sex)?

straight edge has nothing to do with sex.

[xsecx]

If you're thinking about what's "allowed" you'd better step back and realize that the people who are gonna stick with this aren't following a set of rules at all. I choose not to participate in elements of the promiscuous sex popular culture because I personally find them distasteful, dishonest and potentially self destructive, not because straight edge told me I couldn't.


which is good, since it really doesn't have anything to do with being straight edge. Picking a path based on what makes sense for you is the best thing, however, saying that straight edge isn't a set of rules isn't accurate. It is. There are things one can't do and call themselves straight edge.

[JoeyX]

straight edge has nothing to do with sex.

agree to disagree.

[xsecx]

agree to disagree.

what makes you think it does? How many songs can you point to that talk about sex? How many people do you know who said they sold out because of sex? What do you even have to do to sell out with regards to sex? People point to out of step, but it's honestly not reflected in the culture at all. Drinking, smoking and alcohol however are universally agreed upon.

[lo0m]

well, veganism and no promiscuity are part of my edge, as I see both animal products consumption and sex as drugs :-)... if i'll write a song about it, would it be also part of your edge?.. i really doubt about it, so the "show me the song" argument is somehow pointless.. anyway, I understand that this is my personal view on the problem, not forcing anyone to accept anything...

[straightXed]

well, veganism and no promiscuity are part of my edge, as I see both animal products consumption and sex as drugs :-)... if i'll write a song about it, would it be also part of your edge?.. i really doubt about it, so the "show me the song" argument is somehow pointless.. anyway, I understand that this is my personal view on the problem, not forcing anyone to accept anything...

Thats exactly the point though isn't it. One song wouldn't mean much, it would just be your opinion however if pretty much every straightedge song dealt with issues surrounding sex then it would be as commonly accepted as it is that sxe is an anti drug stance. So with that in mind the "show me the song" argument stands up pretty well, i mean its just asking for a consistant reflection of the beliefs and looking at it abstinance of sex isn't consistant throughout straightedge, be it through songs or behaviour, so to catogorically class it as a part of straightedge seems errenous. That of course doesn't or shouldn't taint your personal beliefs in anyway and you clearly accept it is just your personal view so i really wonder what point you are trying to make?

[JoeyX]

what makes you think it does? How many songs can you point to that talk about sex? How many people do you know who said they sold out because of sex? What do you even have to do to sell out with regards to sex? People point to out of step, but it's honestly not reflected in the culture at all. Drinking, smoking and alcohol however are universally agreed upon.

I'm straight edge because I want to live a healthy lifestyle. Because I want to stray myself from getting drunk and doing drugs and not getting into a mindset that is not of my own. I choose to live a full on focused lifestyle, to get what I want out of life, and to not be drug down by anything.

Now by saying that, your interpreting that I can go out and be promiscuous, fuck random bitches, not worry about getting diseases, who cares...fuck it right??? but then at the same time, not do drugs or drink because I "care" about myself, and my body, and my life.

I'm sorry, but to me being straight edge, YES does have certain guidelines it was started out from with mainly "no drugs, no alcohol", but I'm pretty sure the main overall outlook, was to be healthy and free from things that alter your mind, and fuck with you constant state of being. To be focused on life, and not "fuck up" intentionally by wasting away doing shitty things, ie. drugs, drinking, promiscuous sex.

[JoeyX]

Me you youth crew!
If the world was flat I'd grind the edge
To the positive youth my heart I pledge
X on my hand now take the oath
To positive youth to positive growth
To positive minds, to pure clean souls <<<< PURE CLEAN SOULS!
These will be all my goals
Walk with me and my crew
There is so much shit we can do
And we won't stop until we're through

So getting a disease from fucking a random girl, thats a clean soul?


"I'm a person just like you
But I've got better things to do
Than sit around and fuck my head
Hang out with the living dead
Snort white shit up my nose
Pass out at the shows
I don't even think about speed
That's something I just don't need

I've got the straight edge"

This whole entire song he is speaking about not doing things that will fuck up your body, fuck with your mind. Please tell me how getting aids/hiv/etc. will not fuck your mind and body, and make you end up being the "living dead".

I mean you can interpret these things into "drugs, and alcohol only" but I have always, and will always interpret these songs as a healthy lifestyle, to stay focused and free of things that can hurt/kill me.

[mouseman004]

Me you youth crew!
If the world was flat I'd grind the edge
To the positive youth my heart I pledge
X on my hand now take the oath
To positive youth to positive growth
To positive minds, to pure clean souls <<<< PURE CLEAN SOULS!
These will be all my goals
Walk with me and my crew
There is so much shit we can do
And we won't stop until we're through

So getting a disease from fucking a random girl, thats a clean soul?


"I'm a person just like you
But I've got better things to do
Than sit around and fuck my head
Hang out with the living dead
Snort white shit up my nose
Pass out at the shows
I don't even think about speed
That's something I just don't need

I've got the straight edge"

This whole entire song he is speaking about not doing things that will fuck up your body, fuck with your mind. Please tell me how getting aids/hiv/etc. will not fuck your mind and body, and make you end up being the "living dead".

I mean you can interpret these things into "drugs, and alcohol only" but I have always, and will always interpret these songs as a healthy lifestyle, to stay focused and free of things that can hurt/kill me.

That is great, but the examples you gave don't specifically state what you are trying to prove. It is your interpretation of them, and its an interpretation that is not widely held by the straight edge community. The only song I have noticed anything about sex was out of step, and as Dusty pointed out when I had the same debate with him years ago, was that if out of step was to be taken literally, playing golf would be breaking edge.

[JoeyX]

That is great, but the examples you gave don't specifically state what you are trying to prove. It is your interpretation of them, and its an interpretation that is not widely held by the straight edge community. The only song I have noticed anything about sex was out of step, and as Dusty pointed out when I had the same debate with him years ago, was that if out of step was to be taken literally, playing golf would be breaking edge.

My only problem here really is....how can one call themself straight edge, be so serious about something, so real, and so caring about their constant state of being, their health, and their lifestyle, but then its ok to fuck your life away, and get a disease from some dumb broad you met that night that decides to spread her legs, cause your cute....not caring who you really are?

Now that last sentence might have came off sexist, but it's not in anyway. Because not all girls are dumb broads, but I do however strongly believe if you open your legs on the 1st night of meeting someone,....do you really deserve a more respectful then that? I mean, that goes for guys too.

[xsecx]

I'm straight edge because I want to live a healthy lifestyle. Because I want to stray myself from getting drunk and doing drugs and not getting into a mindset that is not of my own. I choose to live a full on focused lifestyle, to get what I want out of life, and to not be drug down by anything.

Now by saying that, your interpreting that I can go out and be promiscuous, fuck random bitches, not worry about getting diseases, who cares...fuck it right??? but then at the same time, not do drugs or drink because I "care" about myself, and my body, and my life.

I'm sorry, but to me being straight edge, YES does have certain guidelines it was started out from with mainly "no drugs, no alcohol", but I'm pretty sure the main overall outlook, was to be healthy and free from things that alter your mind, and fuck with you constant state of being. To be focused on life, and not "fuck up" intentionally by wasting away doing shitty things, ie. drugs, drinking, promiscuous sex.

so did you sell out when you get into a fight or when you involved in that sports team riot? That's not healthy behavior. Do you gamble? Do you get physicals yearly? What else do you do to keep yourself healthy?

[JoeyX]

That is great, but the examples you gave don't specifically state what you are trying to prove. It is your interpretation of them, and its an interpretation that is not widely held by the straight edge community. The only song I have noticed anything about sex was out of step, and as Dusty pointed out when I had the same debate with him years ago, was that if out of step was to be taken literally, playing golf would be breaking edge.

Your also proving my point further here. If you were to take a song so LITERALLY, that it ONLY means "drugs and alcohol", then yes golf would so called be breaking edge. But that is the point, the song is meant to be taken as a whole, about not consuming/doing anything that will hurt you and/or your mind. If anything, it seems as people take these songs word for word, and not look at the overall point of it all. They aren't literally stating "golf is breaking edge", they are making a point.

[xsecx]

Me you youth crew!
If the world was flat I'd grind the edge
To the positive youth my heart I pledge
X on my hand now take the oath
To positive youth to positive growth
To positive minds, to pure clean souls <<<< PURE CLEAN SOULS!
These will be all my goals
Walk with me and my crew
There is so much shit we can do
And we won't stop until we're through

So getting a disease from fucking a random girl, thats a clean soul?


"I'm a person just like you
But I've got better things to do
Than sit around and fuck my head
Hang out with the living dead
Snort white shit up my nose
Pass out at the shows
I don't even think about speed
That's something I just don't need

I've got the straight edge"

This whole entire song he is speaking about not doing things that will fuck up your body, fuck with your mind. Please tell me how getting aids/hiv/etc. will not fuck your mind and body, and make you end up being the "living dead".

I mean you can interpret these things into "drugs, and alcohol only" but I have always, and will always interpret these songs as a healthy lifestyle, to stay focused and free of things that can hurt/kill me.

you do realize that it's completely possible to have casual sex and not get a disease right? how many kids do you know that have sold out from sex and what would one have to do to sell out? And dude. within context, neither one of those songs are talking about sex.

[xsecx]

My only problem here really is....how can one call themself straight edge, be so serious about something, so real, and so caring about their constant state of being, their health, and their lifestyle, but then its ok to fuck your life away, and get a disease from some dumb broad you met that night that decides to spread her legs, cause your cute....not caring who you really are?

Now that last sentence might have came off sexist, but it's not in anyway. Because not all girls are dumb broads, but I do however strongly believe if you open your legs on the 1st night of meeting someone,....do you really deserve a more respectful then that? I mean, that goes for guys too.

it is really sexist. It's also weird how you think that's the only way that casual sex happens. That there's only sex within committed relationships and then one night stands and nothing in between.

[JoeyX]

you do realize that it's completely possible to have casual sex and not get a disease right? how many kids do you know that have sold out from sex and what would one have to do to sell out? And dude. within context, neither one of those songs are talking about sex.

I do know that is it possible to not get a disease, but it is also very possible that you can get a disease, I hope that your arguement isn't that casual sex is ok because you can possibly "not" get a disease.

[JoeyX]

it is really sexist. It's also weird how you think that's the only way that casual sex happens. That there's only sex within committed relationships and then one night stands and nothing in between.

It is not sexist at all. It might have came off that way because I used a reference for women only, my intentions are saying the same as if some gross dumb guy chooses to pull his dick out and have sex with a girl, that is just as disgusting and wrong in my eyes. So I'm not being sexist, it works both ways.

[xsecx]

I do know that is it possible to not get a disease, but it is also very possible that you can get a disease, I hope that your arguement isn't that casual sex is ok because you can possibly "not" get a disease.

No my argument is that saying that it's against straight edge because it's unhealthy because you can get a disease is baseless.

how many kids do you know that have sold out from sex and what would one have to do to sell out?

[xsecx]

It is not sexist at all. It might have came off that way because I used a reference for women only, my intentions are saying the same as if some gross dumb guy chooses to pull his dick out and have sex with a girl, that is just as disgusting and wrong in my eyes. So I'm not being sexist, it works both ways.

calling women broads is sexist. Why do you just respond to one part of a post but then ignore the rest of them?

[JoeyX]

it is really sexist. It's also weird how you think that's the only way that casual sex happens. That there's only sex within committed relationships and then one night stands and nothing in between.

I just think that you should at least know the person, for fucks sakes be in a relationship with someone. I don't get how someone can live such a positive drug free lifestyle, but have no problem having sex with a random person RISKING the possibilities of getting diseases. It's a contradiction to me.

[JoeyX]

calling women broads is sexist. Why do you just respond to one part of a post but then ignore the rest of them?

I'm not calling 'women' broads. I'm calling 'women who choose to open their legs for a one stand' ...broads. Just as I would call that same guy who is choosing to participate in the same act, a disgusting asshole who has no respect for women.

And to what part of this post am I not responding to?

[JoeyX]

No my argument is that saying that it's against straight edge because it's unhealthy because you can get a disease is baseless.

how many kids do you know that have sold out from sex and what would one have to do to sell out?

I'm not saying one is to "sellout" from it, I'm just saying it seems to contradict the idea of what straight edge is.

[xsecx]

I just think that you should at least know the person, for fucks sakes be in a relationship with someone. I don't get how someone can live such a positive drug free lifestyle, but have no problem having sex with a random person RISKING the possibilities of getting diseases. It's a contradiction to me.

You're talking about something as binary when it isn't. that it's either fucking someone you don't know or someone you're in a relationship with. That's just not how the world works. What you're talking about isn't reflected in straight edge at all. I've known a shit ton of people who are straight as fuck who had a bunch of sexual partners. I'm also pretty sure none of them have an diseases or suffered anything negative from it and there's no way in hell I'd say that they weren't straight edge because of who they decide to have sex with.

[xsecx]

I'm not saying one is to "sellout" from it, I'm just saying it seems to contradict the idea of what straight edge is.

so what do you call someone who drinks or takes drugs after being straight edge?

[xsecx]

I'm not calling 'women' broads. I'm calling 'women who choose to open their legs for a one stand' ...broads. Just as I would call that same guy who is choosing to participate in the same act, a disgusting asshole who has no respect for women.

And to what part of this post am I not responding to?


Broad is an offensive term for a woman. it has nothing to do with sexual practices. Calling them whores would be sexist too.

and you did, just in a separate post.

[JoeyX]

you do realize that it's completely possible to have casual sex and not get a disease right? how many kids do you know that have sold out from sex and what would one have to do to sell out? And dude. within context, neither one of those songs are talking about sex.

Directly or indirectly, they are talking about living a lifestyle free of things that hurt you.

People do crack, smoke weed, drink, etc. because it feels good, its fun, its a "way out", whatever reason....

People have casual sex because it feels good, its fun,....same shit.

What is the difference?

Both run the risk of possible disease, death, etc.

At least when you are in a relationship with a person, and/or love the person, you KNOW the person, and lesson the chances of disease.

[JoeyX]

You're talking about something as binary when it isn't. that it's either fucking someone you don't know or someone you're in a relationship with. That's just not how the world works. What you're talking about isn't reflected in straight edge at all. I've known a shit ton of people who are straight as fuck who had a bunch of sexual partners. I'm also pretty sure none of them have an diseases or suffered anything negative from it and there's no way in hell I'd say that they weren't straight edge because of who they decide to have sex with.

I'm sorry I just don't consider it ok to casually/randomly have sex with someone and then claim to live a "positive healthy lifestyle".


so what do you call someone who drinks or takes drugs after being straight edge?

I would call them a sellout. So I guess yes, I would consider someone who has "casual sex" a sellout in my eyes.


Broad is an offensive term for a woman. it has nothing to do with sexual practices. Calling them whores would be sexist too.

and you did, just in a separate post.

Ok, so maybe I shouldn't of used that term. I'm in no way sexist, and did not mean in it that way. I just get offended when people are slutty, it disgusts me in every way possible, to the point where I will literally call someone out on it, and/or leave the place I'm in because I can't stand to watch disgusting things, ie. hanging out and some girl comes around, or some "bro" dude comes around and starts acting slutty towards someone else.

[xsecx]

Directly or indirectly, they are talking about living a lifestyle free of things that hurt you.

People do crack, smoke weed, drink, etc. because it feels good, its fun, its a "way out", whatever reason....

People have casual sex because it feels good, its fun,....same shit.

What is the difference?

Both run the risk of possible disease, death, etc.

At least when you are in a relationship with a person, and/or love the person, you KNOW the person, and lesson the chances of disease.

No, they're talking about living a lifestyle free of mind altering substances. Sex doesn't fit into that world view, because of everything else, it's really clear that it's something that shouldn't be done. Sex, in your version, however is something that can be done within certain circumstances. Especially since it's very possible for you to get a disease from someone you're in a committed relationship with.

Also, if you think it's all about health and doing things that aren't risky, then why only limit it to sex? What about other risky behaviors? What about driving fast? Carrying guns? Shooting guns? Skateboarding? Jaywalking? Gambling?

[JoeyX]

And just because it is not "widely" practiced among the sxe community/universe, why does that make it socially acceptable to do?

Maybe sxe needs a revised idea, and add-on if you will, to stay ahead and live a healthy lifestyle. Not change what set in stone persay, but add-on. Now I know the reply to this will be "well people will just add whatever they want then", but in the end I think it's a complete contradiction to have casual sex, and call yourself a person who lives a healthy lifestyle.

[xsecx]

I'm sorry I just don't consider it ok to casually/randomly have sex with someone and then claim to live a "positive healthy lifestyle".

If no one gets a disease, the how is a negative unhealthy lifestyle?



I would call them a sellout. So I guess yes, I would consider someone who has "casual sex" a sellout in my eyes.

Then what would constitute casual sex? I mean you could get a disease from kissing someone. If kissing someone you're not in a relationship with breaking edge?



Ok, so maybe I shouldn't of used that term. I'm in no way sexist, and did not mean in it that way. I just get offended when people are slutty, it disgusts me in every way possible, to the point where I will literally call someone out on it, and/or leave the place I'm in because I can't stand to watch disgusting things, ie. hanging out and some girl comes around, or some "bro" dude comes around and starts acting slutty towards someone else.

Why do you care, if it doesn't affect you? Do you get up and leave if someone around you drinks alcohol, or confront them?

[xsecx]

And just because it is not "widely" practiced among the sxe community/universe, why does that make it socially acceptable to do?

Maybe sxe needs a revised idea, and add-on if you will, to stay ahead and live a healthy lifestyle. Not change what set in stone persay, but add-on. Now I know the reply to this will be "well people will just add whatever they want then", but in the end I think it's a complete contradiction to have casual sex, and call yourself a person who lives a healthy lifestyle.


you're confusing the issue. I'm not saying it's a good idea at all. i don't think it is. I just don't think it has anything to do with straight edge. I think that overly rigid ideas about sexuality are just as unhealthy as calling all of it evil and disease causing. I think that sex is a necessary part of the human experience that people should explore, in a healthy and safe manner, I just don't think it has any place in a conversation about straight edge.

[JoeyX]

Alright, after reading them you make some pretty valid points. I will say, that in the end I guess sxe isn't involved with casual sex.

But I honestly want to ask you this....don't you believe overall, not just as a sxe person, but all in all in your life....that having casual sex, and claiming sxe at the same time, isn't a contradiction...IN THE SENSE, that by being straight edge you are trying to live a lifestyle free of drugs and alcohol because what they can do to you, and the fact that they can hurt/kill you, but casual sex is ok because its not a drug/alcohol, and because you could "possibly" not get a disease.

To me straight edge is a part of my life that rids me of things that can kill/hurt me, along with the rest of my lifestyle of living healthy.

So what I'm saying is, I realize now that you CAN live a sxe life and have casual sex without breaking edge, but in the end, wouldn't it still be a contradiction, to the point of being sxe?

Yes were sxe because we don't use altering drugs/alcohol/etc., but WHY IS THAT?! Because we want to be focused and healthy, right?!?

If we have aids/hiv/etc., then were obviously not living that positive healthy lifestyle, because were already unhealthy and have diseases.

[easy]

No, they're talking about living a lifestyle free of mind altering substances. Sex doesn't fit into that world view, because of everything else, it's really clear that it's something that shouldn't be done. Sex, in your version, however is something that can be done within certain circumstances. Especially since it's very possible for you to get a disease from someone you're in a committed relationship with.

Also, if you think it's all about health and doing things that aren't risky, then why only limit it to sex? What about other risky behaviors? What about driving fast? Carrying guns? Shooting guns? Skateboarding? Jaywalking? Gambling?

i thought this post should've ended the debate.

[JoeyX]

you're confusing the issue. I'm not saying it's a good idea at all. i don't think it is. I just don't think it has anything to do with straight edge. I think that overly rigid ideas about sexuality are just as unhealthy as calling all of it evil and disease causing. I think that sex is a necessary part of the human experience that people should explore, in a healthy and safe manner, I just don't think it has any place in a conversation about straight edge.

I can agree with this statement.

[JoeyX]

i thought this post should've ended the debate.

Nope, that was only "half the battle". ha.

[MrMcKeigue]

Well a disease is physical matter, A.K.A. a substance... and you're engaged in an action that you know there's the lingering risk of this substance entering your body and jeopardising your health.

[straightXed]

Well a disease is physical matter, A.K.A. a substance... and you're engaged in an action that you know there's the lingering risk of this substance entering your body and jeopardising your health.

i guess we should all wear face masks and/or live in bubbles then!!

[JoeyX]

i guess we should all wear face masks and/or live in bubbles then!!

See here you're just implying that we should all just "live a little". Otherwise we would all have to live in bubbles, and wear face masks.

But anybody could say that, even about straight edge. "oh just drink, just live a little".

You can't be against one thing, and not another thing that can do the same harm and/or worse, because it "feels good".

[mouseman004]

See here you're just implying that we should all just "live a little". Otherwise we would all have to live in bubbles, and wear face masks.

But anybody could say that, even about straight edge. "oh just drink, just live a little".

You can't be against one thing, and not another thing that can do the same harm and/or worse, because it "feels good".

So you are saying that anything that has the ability to harm you in any way, should be considered a part of straight edge? Eating unhealthy foods can harm you, but I seem to recall you posting about the sonic binge you were on last week, is that against edge?

[straightXed]

See here you're just implying that we should all just "live a little". Otherwise we would all have to live in bubbles, and wear face masks.

No, i am saying for the criteria you are talking about living by to be consistant it would make things rather uncomfortable. So perhaps you are happier being inconsistant with your criteria?


But anybody could say that, even about straight edge. "oh just drink, just live a little".

You can't be against one thing, and not another thing that can do the same harm and/or worse, because it "feels good".

I don't think you quite understood.

[JoeyX]

So you are saying that anything that has the ability to harm you in any way, should be considered a part of straight edge? Eating unhealthy foods can harm you, but I seem to recall you posting about the sonic binge you were on last week, is that against edge?

Lol, sorry calling it a Sonic binge made me laugh.

But on a serious note, we need food, as to a necessity of what we eat, sonic isn't obviously one of them, but food all around is a necessity. That's why I've been on the idea of becoming vegan, because Sonic and things like that aren't a neccesity in my life, and are rather unhealthy. But sex isn't a necessity, unless your wanting to have kids, in which I hope by then you know your partner you are having a kid with.

So I don't think everything in this world that is considered a risk/harmful to become a part of straight edge and to not do it,....but again its about a feeling, a transfer of bodily fluids, etc. I guess I just look at it through a moral point of view, more than a straight edge point of view if that makes sense.

[JoeyX]

No, i am saying for the criteria you are talking about living by to be consistant it would make things rather uncomfortable. So perhaps you are happier being inconsistant with your criteria?



I don't think you quite understood.

I realize things would be more uncomfortable in the aspect that we could take no risks and no harmful things. I'm not saying don't be a risktaker.

Lets take an everyday risk that is fun.

4-wheeling: I love going out 4wheeling all the time, but am I going to jump a 50ft. jump, not knowing what I'm getting into, and knowing what could happen? NO. Now I'm not saying if you are 4wheeling are jump a jump without knowledge, than you are "breaking edge" because of course that doesn't have to do with edge....

I don't know, I guess I'll agree that it doesn't have to do with straight edge, but is still very immoral to randomly have sex with people.

Do not get me wrong, I'm not some hating sex crazed person. I love sex, haha, it is one of the best things to me, do not get me wrong. But I will NOT have sex with someone, unless I'm in a relationship with a person, and feel its right.

[straightXed]

I realize things would be more uncomfortable in the aspect that we could take no risks and no harmful things. I'm not saying don't be a risktaker.

Lets take an everyday risk that is fun.

4-wheeling: I love going out 4wheeling all the time, but am I going to jump a 50ft. jump, not knowing what I'm getting into, and knowing what could happen? NO. Now I'm not saying if you are 4wheeling are jump a jump without knowledge, than you are "breaking edge" because of course that doesn't have to do with edge....

I don't know, I guess I'll agree that it doesn't have to do with straight edge, but is still very immoral to randomly have sex with people.

Do not get me wrong, I'm not some hating sex crazed person. I love sex, haha, it is one of the best things to me, do not get me wrong. But I will NOT have sex with someone, unless I'm in a relationship with a person, and feel its right.

Yeah, exactly, it is not a straightedge issue. As for morals, well they are different for all, some could argue driving a car is immoral...that just highlights how removed from straightedge this argument actually is.

How you choose to go about your personal relations is of no concern of mine, its between you and the person you are having them with. There certainly should not be any ideals put forth under straightedge for kids to abstain from sex etc. it simply would cause hang ups and make straightedge seem unhealthly cult/religious like.

[JoeyX]

Answer me this, why does he say

(I) don't smoke
I don't drink
I don't fuck <<<<<<<<<<< explain that!
At least I can fucking think

Then later in the song he says, "...I'm bringing up these 3 things", explain that.

[mouseman004]

Answer me this, why does he say

(I) don't smoke
I don't drink
I don't fuck <<<<<<<<<<< explain that!
At least I can fucking think

Then later in the song he says, "...I'm bringing up these 3 things", explain that.

He also brings up golf. Is playing golf an edge break?

[xsecx]

Answer me this, why does he say

(I) don't smoke
I don't drink
I don't fuck <<<<<<<<<<< explain that!
At least I can fucking think

Then later in the song he says, "...I'm bringing up these 3 things", explain that.

because he was talking about himself and not straight edge? I don't really know why you're so hung up on this, go look through all of your straight edge records. Go and count the number of songs that talk about drugs and alcohol. Then do the same for sex. If this was something that was important to folks, shouldn't they be at least equal? But they're not. Minor Threat started something, but what it is today is a totally different monster. When things started, people would drink every once in a while and it was fine. Now it's not. the people involved shape things. Now if everyone got together and decided that sex was a part of it and then the culture as a whole reflected it then you'd have a point, but until that happens you don't. You're getting completely hung up on a single lyric from a single song. A song that also says:

Listen,
this is no set of rules
I'm not telling you what to do
all i'm saying, is that i'm bringing up like three things
that are like so important to the whole world,
that i don't have to find , much importance in
because of these things, whether it's fucking or playing golf,
i feel that...

[straightXed]

Answer me this, why does he say

(I) don't smoke
I don't drink
I don't fuck <<<<<<<<<<< explain that!
At least I can fucking think

Then later in the song he says, "...I'm bringing up these 3 things", explain that.

Well dusty said everything i would have said but just for arguments sake, how would you explain it?

I mean don't smoke means don't smoke, pretty self explanitory, same goes for "don't drink" but "don't fuck" is not so clear cut. Do you have a clear definition here? Is it all sex? all sex that isn't procreational? all sex out of wedlock? all sex out of relationships that that haven't been established for 6 months or more? And with regards to your personal definition, does it manage to represent the majority of people involved and can it serve to make a definitive notion with out varying from person to person?

[JoeyX]

because he was talking about himself and not straight edge? I don't really know why you're so hung up on this, go look through all of your straight edge records. Go and count the number of songs that talk about drugs and alcohol. Then do the same for sex. If this was something that was important to folks, shouldn't they be at least equal? But they're not. Minor Threat started something, but what it is today is a totally different monster. When things started, people would drink every once in a while and it was fine. Now it's not. the people involved shape things. Now if everyone got together and decided that sex was a part of it and then the culture as a whole reflected it then you'd have a point, but until that happens you don't. You're getting completely hung up on a single lyric from a single song. A song that also says:

Listen,
this is no set of rules
I'm not telling you what to do
all i'm saying, is that i'm bringing up like three things
that are like so important to the whole world,
that i don't have to find , much importance in
because of these things, whether it's fucking or playing golf,
i feel that...

Thats another thing though, you bring up that if a majority of people believed that way, and pretty much everybody I know in my "scene" and surrounding areas, at least that I know, believe pretty much the same thing and ideals on sex and straight edge.

[xsecx]

Thats another thing though, you bring up that if a majority of people believed that way, and pretty much everybody I know in my "scene" and surrounding areas, at least that I know, believe pretty much the same thing and ideals on sex and straight edge.

then it may just be your and your friends, but it's certainly not universal. I mean shit dude. look at wikipedia. it's not mentioned there either. If it was reflected in the culture you'd have a point, but it isn't. Can you even point to a single person you know that's sold out for having a one night stand? Do you know anyone who stopped calling themselves straight edge for getting a bj for someone they weren't in love with?

[lo0m]

wikipedia? did you really mention it as a reliable source for anything? cause it can be there next morning..

also straightXed: you can say that about "i don't smoke" (is he talking about cigarettes? or just weed? or just crack?) or "i don't drink" (was Ian lactose intolerant? wasn't he drinking anything at all?).. yes, it is demagogic, and so is your explanation of "i don't fuck".. it is clear to me and to many people (both sxe and nonsxe) i've discussed it that he's talking about sex outside relationship as any gentlemen wouldn't call an intercourse with a loved one "fucking", or at least I wouldn't, YMMV .. but i finally agree that if the majority agrees that sex isn't part of straight edge, than so be it (altought i have similar experience as joeyx) as the majority shapes sxe.. (but then we maybe shouldn't be angry about those nssxe as they shape it too.. j/k)

[straightXed]

wikipedia? did you really mention it as a reliable source for anything? cause it can be there next morning..

also straightXed: you can say that about "i don't smoke" (is he talking about cigarettes? or just weed? or just crack?)

He refers to smoking, all smoking...no smoking, be it smoking tobacco or weed, is the line accepted throughout the straightedge community.


or "i don't drink" (was Ian lactose intolerant? wasn't he drinking anything at all?)..

Drinking refers to, in this context, the consumption of alcoholic beverages. Again this is the understanding accepted through out the straightedge community. It is a term that is often used, confusingly so, to refer to alcohol specifically.


yes, it is demagogic, and so is your explanation of "i don't fuck".. it is clear to me and to many people (both sxe and nonsxe) i've discussed it that he's talking about sex outside relationship

If you are having sex that is a relationship, you may not be in a loving relationship or a long term relationship, it may just be a fleeting relationship or they may be in relationships with multiple partners but you are still in a relationship. To have sex outside of a relationship would pretty much leave you with masturbation, i assume you are saying "fuck" relates to all sex acts? But describe exactly what type of criteria makes up the acceptable relationship, where is the line drawn. How do you define the criteria, i.e. love. How long must a relationship be before considered viable for sex? What if two people with respect for each other and a complete understanding that they want to engage in a relationship based on sex without getting tied down to a full on relationship...is that wrong? Its just impossible to have any real sound clear cut criteria for this...it really is going to be so different for everyone on a personal insight level and how they interact with different people.



as any gentlemen wouldn't call an intercourse with a loved one "fucking", or at least I wouldn't,

Is that just a gentleman thing or do you refer that to women also? But if you and your loved one want to call it fucking, which is not unpopular at all even within married peoples sex lives, then it doesn't make the act of intercourse less edge. To fuck is simply defined as the act of sexual intercourse and its a term that people in relationships can choose to use as well as the thousands of other euthamisms for sex that are used by people, if partners refer to there sexual expoits as fucking does that affect them being edge?




YMMV

Well if it did vary or didn't vary i fail to see what bearing it would have on me being a gentleman. Its surely a matter that is accepted on by those involved...you can't classify someone as ungentleman like because of terms they choose to use within their private life, its ridiculous. Now i can understand if you were at a very posh black tie affair and you decide to start describing your sex life, you may get viewed as less gentleman like but thats a case of social etiquette really, if i meet someones grandparents and start saying me and my girlfriend/wife love fucking, we fuck all the time...sure its probably not the best social subject but it could have been any terminology to describe any act...i.e. me and the wife love to get home and sandpaper each others genitals while the gimp makes our tea, some people might be comfortable with that conversation others might not...like i say, thats social ettiquette not sexual morality. I mean if i want to refer to a sex act between me and another as fucking it really doesn't say i am any more likely to be in a less favourable relationship and it doesn't say i am not a gentleman, and certainly has no bearing on being straightedge as it just doesn't transcend.



.. but i finally agree that if the majority agrees that sex isn't part of straight edge, than so be it (altought i have similar experience as joeyx) as the majority shapes sxe.. (but then we maybe shouldn't be angry about those nssxe as they shape it too.. j/k)

Its not a case of being angry, its a case of looking at how flawed the idea of sex being an issue is. You can't give clear criteria even if it were something embraced by all. Sex is a vastly different subject that really is a very personal one, people shouldn't be encouraged to abstain in such a blanket way, it can mask feelings and hang ups that will just get worse and be a great way for people to avoid issues they have. Thats not crucial. Sexuality is extremely dynamic, with the simple and rather unthoughtful criteria that i have read in every post on this issue, most people would have probably been considered to have broken edge. Having a healthy and positve attitude to sexual relations and sexual health is awesome, i advocate it hugely but i also avocate that sexual practices, relationship issues etc. are certainly not straightedge issues and, for a healthier way to address these issues, nor should they be.

[xsecx]

wikipedia? did you really mention it as a reliable source for anything? cause it can be there next morning..


I didn't say it was reliable, but it is another example among many that reflects how people feel about it.




(altought i have similar experience as joeyx) as the majority shapes sxe.. (but then we maybe shouldn't be angry about those nssxe as they shape it too.. j/k)

so can you name people that sold out from sex? How many people do you know that broke edge because of sex? The minority views don't shape something that doesn't have a leader. If you can't point to someone who's in charge all you can do is look at the data that's around, and that data doesn't really point to sex being included.

also since drug use wasn't mentioned in out of step, does that make it ok? I mean, since apparently minor threat is the guidepost we should all follow to what straight edge is.

[lo0m]

He refers to smoking, all smoking...no smoking, be it smoking tobacco or weed, is the line accepted throughout the straightedge community.



Drinking refers to, in this context, the consumption of alcoholic beverages. Again this is the understanding accepted through out the straightedge community. It is a term that is often used, confusingly so, to refer to alcohol specifically.

that was exactly my point :-| .. that was a sarcasm from my side.. "don't drink" is (for me) as clear as "don't fuck"



If you are having sex that is a relationship, you may not be in a loving relationship or a long term relationship, it may just be a fleeting relationship or they may be in relationships with multiple partners but you are still in a relationship. To have sex outside of a relationship would pretty much leave you with masturbation, i assume you are saying "fuck" relates to all sex acts? But describe exactly what type of criteria makes up the acceptable relationship, where is the line drawn. How do you define the criteria, i.e. love. How long must a relationship be before considered viable for sex? What if two people with respect for each other and a complete understanding that they want to engage in a relationship based on sex without getting tied down to a full on relationship...is that wrong? Its just impossible to have any real sound clear cut criteria for this...it really is going to be so different for everyone on a personal insight level and how they interact with different people.

come on, stop playing with words.. you do realize when you're in relationship. guess what, everyone does.. everyone before intercourse is fully aware if (s)he's looking just for sex and if he's been sincere to the counterpart.. you don't have to have IQ of 150 for that..


Is that just a gentleman thing or do you refer that to women also? But if you and your loved one want to call it fucking, which is not unpopular at all even within married peoples sex lives, then it doesn't make the act of intercourse less edge. To fuck is simply defined as the act of sexual intercourse and its a term that people in relationships can choose to use as well as the thousands of other euthamisms for sex that are used by people, if partners refer to there sexual expoits as fucking does that affect them being edge?

i'm writing from male perspective, but it counts for women too of course. i'm not talking about using fucking (the word) in between a relationship, that's not my problem. and maybe it's just me, but if we met and you would say "I just fucked my g/f yesterday" or "hey, look at that girl, i want to fuck her" you would degrade yourself in my eyes.





Well if it did vary or didn't vary i fail to see what bearing it would have on me being a gentleman. Its surely a matter that is accepted on by those involved...you can't classify someone as ungentleman like because of terms they choose to use within their private life, its ridiculous. Now i can understand if you were at a very posh black tie affair and you decide to start describing your sex life, you may get viewed as less gentleman like but thats a case of social etiquette really, if i meet someones grandparents and start saying me and my girlfriend/wife love fucking, we fuck all the time...sure its probably not the best social subject but it could have been any terminology to describe any act...i.e. me and the wife love to get home and sandpaper each others genitals while the gimp makes our tea, some people might be comfortable with that conversation others might not...like i say, thats social ettiquette not sexual morality. I mean if i want to refer to a sex act between me and another as fucking it really doesn't say i am any more likely to be in a less favourable relationship and it doesn't say i am not a gentleman, and certainly has no bearing on being straightedge as it just doesn't transcend.

that's true.. but that isn't what i was talking about..





Its not a case of being angry, its a case of looking at how flawed the idea of sex being an issue is. You can't give clear criteria even if it were something embraced by all. Sex is a vastly different subject that really is a very personal one, people shouldn't be encouraged to abstain in such a blanket way, it can mask feelings and hang ups that will just get worse and be a great way for people to avoid issues they have. Thats not crucial. Sexuality is extremely dynamic, with the simple and rather unthoughtful criteria that i have read in every post on this issue, most people would have probably been considered to have broken edge. Having a healthy and positve attitude to sexual relations and sexual health is awesome, i advocate it hugely but i also avocate that sexual practices, relationship issues etc. are certainly not straightedge issues and, for a healthier way to address these issues, nor should they be.

[straightXed]

that was exactly my point :-| .. that was a sarcasm from my side.. "don't drink" is (for me) as clear as "don't fuck"

So your point is that the word fuck just means to have sexual intercourse and has nothing to do with having sex with someone you love or not? Sorry your point didn't really shine through.




come on, stop playing with words.. you do realize when you're in relationship. guess what, everyone does.. everyone before intercourse is fully aware if (s)he's looking just for sex and if he's been sincere to the counterpart.. you don't have to have IQ of 150 for that..

Its true that you are missing the grey area, some people look for a relationship based on sex, are looking to be in a relationship without being tied down, are looking to be in a relationship with someone but can be pretty sure they won't be marrying that person, there is not just one relationship dynamic so what dynamics need to be met? But i love how you ignore the questions and just say its playing with words, that really doesn''t explain things. And again your language indicates that you think its down to the man to be sincere, ignoring that relationships require sincerity from female counterparts also. Perhaps that is playing with words too but those words matter as they define what we are saying. You need to use them clearly and consisely.




i'm writing from male perspective, but it counts for women too of course. i'm not talking about using fucking (the word) in between a relationship, that's not my problem. and maybe it's just me, but if we met and you would say "I just fucked my g/f yesterday" or "hey, look at that girl, i want to fuck her" you would degrade yourself in my eyes.

Thats removing the idea somewhat from the idea of "don't fuck" though. I personally would have no interest in telling you about my private life but if i was with a friend who i was comfortable in talking about my private life and used the term "fuck" then it really has no bearing on my gentlemanly qualities any more than it would if i told him we were having sexual intercourse. And even if it does degrade me in your eyes it doesn't make the relationship less viable. As for seeing a attractive girl and saying that i would like to fuck her, what is ok in your eyes? Could i say, i would like to sleep with her? i would like to have sex with her? i would like to "do" her? Is that still degrading or is it the use of a word that has other meanings that are negative that makes the issue? Its a very commonly used word and often means negative things so i can understand not liking the word but i am still unsure how its degrading to use the word when what is being said when saying "i would like to fuck" is the same as saying "i would like to have sexual intercourse" by definition.






that's true.. but that isn't what i was talking about..

But thats exactly my point, you don't have any clear definition of what you are talking about, just a personal perspective with no solid basis for others to know exactly what you are refering to.

[lo0m]

StraightXed: i believe there's a language problem on my side of La Manche, so I'll try to clarify myself:

all of this is written from man's perspective. just because i'm a man. that doesn't mean it's not the same for girls, even i'll write "he" as i'm lazy to type "(s)he" all the time. also, i see relationship between man and woman as a way to go throught life (or a part of it) together. sharing fun, sharing sadness, sharing.. that's the key word. I don't see "relationship based on sex" as a viable relationship, i see it as an excuse (cant' think of better word) for just having sex. there's nothing wrong about that if all the participants are OK with it, it's not my business, but it's not a relationship as I see it. also i don't care if the relationship is straight, gay, lesbian or polygynyc/polyandric,etc.

about using the word fucking.. I consider talking openly about sex with one's partner disrespectful to her/him. that was once widespread knowledge among civilized men in the western culture. it has changed, that's true and it was propably for good if seen from global perspective (the change of manners). But still - if we have to talk about that - I consider using the word "fucking" to describe the act as rudeness and disrespect towards the one you (propably) love. i see similarity in hiphop culture - there's nothing cool calling your counterpart a bitch - that's just rude.

this was just my own opinion on the topic to help you see what i was talking about. I'm not saying that it has to be true for everyone, nor i'm saying that is has anything to do with straight edge. On the other hand - this concept is widely accepted among the people i was talking with about the subject (sxe and sex) and that was the reason for posting here.. maybe it's location-specific, i honestly don't know...

any more questions (i may have left some unnoticed) ?

[straightXed]

StraightXed: i believe there's a language problem on my side of La Manche, so I'll try to clarify myself:

all of this is written from man's perspective. just because i'm a man. that doesn't mean it's not the same for girls, even i'll write "he" as i'm lazy to type "(s)he" all the time. also, i see relationship between man and woman as a way to go throught life (or a part of it) together. sharing fun, sharing sadness, sharing.. that's the key word. I don't see "relationship based on sex" as a viable relationship, i see it as an excuse (cant' think of better word) for just having sex. there's nothing wrong about that if all the participants are OK with it, it's not my business, but it's not a relationship as I see it. also i don't care if the relationship is straight, gay, lesbian or polygynyc/polyandric,etc.

You don't have to write (s)he everytime, you don't have to specify gender at all.

Just because you don't see it as viable it doesn't mean its not a relationship, there are lots of things that i could say make a relationship less viable but it doesn't stop it being a relationship and the point is i am trying to gather what criteria you need to establish a relationship in your eyes and is everything short of those criteria somehow disrespectful or non valid? You say that the other relationships aren't relationships in your eyes but by definition they are, so as you are differing from definition you need to explain exactly what criteria are needed.


about using the word fucking.. I consider talking openly about sex with one's partner disrespectful to her/him.

Why? Should we keep things bottled up and not discuss what is normal, what we are unsure of, ask for advice from friends? You have a really dated idea if you think to discuss sex is such a taboo.


that was once widespread knowledge among civilized men in the western culture. it has changed, that's true and it was propably for good if seen from global perspective (the change of manners).

Yeah, lets get some awesome victorian ideals on the go, keep it all behind closed doors and act like it doesn't happen.


But still - if we have to talk about that - I consider using the word "fucking" to describe the act as rudeness and disrespect towards the one you (propably) love. i see similarity in hiphop culture - there's nothing cool calling your counterpart a bitch - that's just rude.

But bitch can largely be reffered to as a word describing disrespect and negativity, particularly by dictionary definition. The word fuck on the other hand can be defined as to simply mean sexual intercourse and its put so in its definition. So the two don't really compare. It is a word that has other meanings but in one context, this one, its simply slang for sexual intercourse. Are you now saying you are against slang?


this was just my own opinion on the topic to help you see what i was talking about. I'm not saying that it has to be true for everyone, nor i'm saying that is has anything to do with straight edge. On the other hand - this concept is widely accepted among the people i was talking with about the subject (sxe and sex) and that was the reason for posting here.. maybe it's location-specific, i honestly don't know...

And i challenged your opinion as it really seems to be based on really flawed logic and as you again mention the people you speak with about it being a sxe issue i continue to mention how that doesn't stand up either. I am challenging your reasining and logic for thinking what you think. Although it seems you would prefer not to entertain the idea that the large grey area exists and that the terms used are easily argued as not as offensive as you make out. Further more it seems you have some rather backward values about actually discussing sex.


any more questions (i may have left some unnoticed) ?

You missed a lot of questions yes, i'm not sure if they were unnoticed intentionally or not but it certainly seems convenient for your point to be put accross without answering them directly. If you do wish to answer them they are easily noticed and identified by the question mark (?) after them.

[lo0m]

i'm tired of this.. you read what you want to read.. that somehow destroys the debate.. i've said numerous times that it's my own opinion (talking about what relationship is/isn't) and you reply: "Just because you don't see it as viable it doesn't mean its not a relationship".. i didn't say that.. i only showed my personal perspective...
talking about sex: my bad. i should put it in different way - i have nothing against "hey brother, i have a little problem with my mate" type of discussion among friends.. what bothers me is statements about one's counterpart made in public which can everyone hear.. maybe i'm into victorian ideals (i'm not but if you see it that way..) but this makes me feel embarassed for the counterpart. i don't give a fuck if it's now widely accepted. i won't be slave to what society thinks is ok.
bitch/fuck:thx, i needed clearance on this subject.. in czech it's different - "fuck" is as disrespectful as "bitch"..

anyway, this whole thing is miles away from the original question of this topic..

[XTrueColorsX]

Well, I think when a straight edger says "I don't fuck", it means "I don't want to use a person for sex". And yeah, the "no casual sex" thing is part of my edge. And it is not important what is relationship and what is not... I don't know, maybe I'm an idiot but this is black and white for me... Do you want to use this girl or guy just for sex or not? Simple thing.

[straightXed]

i'm tired of this.. you read what you want to read.. that somehow destroys the debate..

I read what you write.



i've said numerous times that it's my own opinion (talking about what relationship is/isn't) and you reply: "Just because you don't see it as viable it doesn't mean its not a relationship".. i didn't say that.. i only showed my personal perspective...

I am well aware of this but i am asking you why you hold this opinion, what makes you think that these other things aren't relationships, which you still don't answer. I know its your perspective but its like me saying in my perspective marriage isn't a relationship...sure its my perspective but it does help if i am able to quantify why i think that.


talking about sex: my bad. i should put it in different way - i have nothing against "hey brother, i have a little problem with my mate" type of discussion among friends.. what bothers me is statements about one's counterpart made in public which can everyone hear.. maybe i'm into victorian ideals (i'm not but if you see it that way..) but this makes me feel embarassed for the counterpart. i don't give a fuck if it's now widely accepted. i won't be slave to what society thinks is ok.

But all this is rooted from a term that means sexual intercourse that you original said you find disrespectful or makes people less gentlemanly. But i challenge that, it has no bearing on that, the word is nothing, you seem to find a particular behaviour ungentlemanly and disrespectful but thats not synonamous with the word fuck. And the word fuck is the root issue here...you shouldn't have an issue with that word as by its very definition is sexual intercourse in this discussion and thats simply not a bad thing. If you have a problem with debauched hedonistic young lad/ladette style culture then fine but i am contending that the word fuck is not necessarily what you should be against. Theres nothing to say it defines a different type of sexual relationship than another, it refers to intercourse and nothing more...you attach the rest of the meaning yourself.

If you don't wish to see sex discussed then yeah i would see your ideals dated but you are now saying you don't wish for that. Its just what was written and thats all i have to go on so that would be why the response was what it was. Although you don't have to just talk about sex when there is a problem, it shouldn't be a taboo subject at all really but obviously like everything there is a time and a place. If you discuss sexual maters using any wording so others in public can hear then i'm sure you will be left with the same quandry, its no reason to be against the word fuck but to be against poor awareness of social skills. I mean i can fully understand being against discussing certain things in public but again thats not solely a problem with the word fuck is it.




bitch/fuck:thx, i needed clearance on this subject.. in czech it's different - "fuck" is as disrespectful as "bitch"..

well english dictionarys will give you a different definition. Sure the word can be used as an offensive one and very often is but there is also a definition to it which you have to accept which is:

fuck -
verb (used with object)
1. to have sexual intercourse with.

where as bitch is soley a derogatory term or of course a female dog. A dictionary definition follows:

bitch -
3. Slang.
a. a malicious, unpleasant, selfish person, esp. a woman.
b. a lewd woman.

Comparing the two you have to admit that the term fuck, whilst still a slang term, is really not comparable for terms of disrespect.






anyway, this whole thing is miles away from the original question of this topic..

so? You can't keep conversations in a neat little box, sometimes they take you other places, thats a beautiful thing.

[lo0m]

I read what you write.

and that's bad as i really should improve my English :-)



I am well aware of this but i am asking you why you hold this opinion, what makes you think that these other things aren't relationships, which you still don't answer. I know its your perspective but its like me saying in my perspective marriage isn't a relationship...sure its my perspective but it does help if i am able to quantify why i think that.
i dont know.. i always thought of a relationship as "long term relationship when 2(3,4,..) love each other".. maybe there's something lost in translation of the word "relationship".. or it's something rooted in me from my parents.. i honestly don't know.. but i don't see two people occasionally having sex in a relationship.. for me, relationship is a bunch of things.. some great, some maybe boring, some maybe eating your time, but that's just the way it is.. it is a bond.. and if someone takes only sex from all these things - it's like licking the sugar from a donut.. you didn't eat a donut if you just took the sweetest part..



But all this is rooted from a term that means sexual intercourse that you original said you find disrespectful or makes people less gentlemanly. But i challenge that, it has no bearing on that, the word is nothing, you seem to find a particular behaviour ungentlemanly and disrespectful but thats not synonamous with the word fuck. And the word fuck is the root issue here...you shouldn't have an issue with that word as by its very definition is sexual intercourse in this discussion and thats simply not a bad thing. If you have a problem with debauched hedonistic young lad/ladette style culture then fine but i am contending that the word fuck is not necessarily what you should be against. Theres nothing to say it defines a different type of sexual relationship than another, it refers to intercourse and nothing more...you attach the rest of the meaning yourself.
right



If you don't wish to see sex discussed then yeah i would see your ideals dated but you are now saying you don't wish for that. Its just what was written and thats all i have to go on so that would be why the response was what it was. Although you don't have to just talk about sex when there is a problem, it shouldn't be a taboo subject at all really but obviously like everything there is a time and a place. If you discuss sexual maters using any wording so others in public can hear then i'm sure you will be left with the same quandry, its no reason to be against the word fuck but to be against poor awareness of social skills. I mean i can fully understand being against discussing certain things in public but again thats not solely a problem with the word fuck is it.

yeah, not only discussing problems with sex.. but i see you got the idea




well english dictionarys will give you a different definition. Sure the word can be used as an offensive one and very often is but there is also a definition to it which you have to accept which is:

fuck -
verb (used with object)
1. to have sexual intercourse with.

where as bitch is soley a derogatory term or of course a female dog. A dictionary definition follows:

bitch -
3. Slang.
a. a malicious, unpleasant, selfish person, esp. a woman.
b. a lewd woman.

Comparing the two you have to admit that the term fuck, whilst still a slang term, is really not comparable for terms of disrespect.







so? You can't keep conversations in a neat little box, sometimes they take you other places, thats a beautiful thing.

[straightXed]

and that's bad as i really should improve my English :-)

It might help to use a dictionary for definitions instead of what you think and feel about something.



i dont know.. i always thought of a relationship as "long term relationship when 2(3,4,..) love each other".. maybe there's something lost in translation of the word "relationship".. or it's something rooted in me from my parents.. i honestly don't know.. but i don't see two people occasionally having sex in a relationship.. for me, relationship is a bunch of things.. some great, some maybe boring, some maybe eating your time, but that's just the way it is.. it is a bond.. and if someone takes only sex from all these things - it's like licking the sugar from a donut.. you didn't eat a donut if you just took the sweetest part..

Its great that you think and feel all that but theres one small problem! Just because you think a relationship is or isn't something it doesn't make it so. We have definitions of words otherwise they would quite quickly begin to mean nothing. Your donut analogy is all well and good but it applies more to you than i, as you are taking a word and finding a definitiojn that you like but then ignoring all the other definitions that are just as important to making up that word or donut. Your personal definition of "relationship" seems to need much more criteria than the commonly accepted definitions and thus it makes your usage of the word non descriptive of what you actually mean. Heres a quick and simple definition for you to look at and if you wish to disagree with dictionary definitions, well then thats fine.

relationship -

–noun
1. a connection, association, or involvement.
2. connection between persons by blood or marriage.
3. an emotional or other connection between people: the relationship between teachers and students.
4. a sexual involvement; affair.





right

Yes, right, i assume you are agreeing.





yeah, not only discussing problems with sex.. but i see you got the idea

Idea being that it has no bearing on the usage of the word fuck at all, its behaviour you are specifying and not the use of a word, correct. The usage of the word fuck with its simple definition can be used in many ways that should not be seen as disrespectful.

[xRobinhoodx]

What is everyones opinion on sex?

I think that if you're in a relationship when you love eachother and "practice the love" in form of sex (even in terms of not getting pregnant), it's nothing wrong.

[CarlaRant]

Sex? It's great! No really...really. ;)

You'll find that many people on this board have different opinions about sex. There are a handful that believe that sxe folks shouldn't sleep around. Then there are others that stand on the firm believe that your sexual lifestyle does not dictate if you are sxe or not.

My opinion....well, I've never stated it here. I think that people should be in a loving, responsible, committed relationship before giving themselves physically to someone else. However, I don't think someone who claims straightedge and doesn't agree with me on the sex issue is any less sxe.