I don't understand

[XCarsonSCX]

I have been straight edge officially for a couple months and I took the time to look it up and understand it before I really decided I was. But I don't understand why so many people that are in my area claim to be edge but they drink caffeine and they don't listen to hardcore. I normally try not to act like a know it all but when I try to explain to them about straight edge they don't listen. it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. maybe it's just because of the environment of where I live or something. does anyone have some insight into this?

[kid_ugly]

um caffeine isn't an edge break so whats the deal?
and maybe you shouldn't try to explain straight edge to them and ask them what they think edge is about to find out if they really represent the values of it.

also i don't believe it matters what music you listen to when claiming edge although this is often debated

[xsecx]

um caffeine isn't an edge break so whats the deal?
and maybe you shouldn't try to explain straight edge to them and ask them what they think edge is about to find out if they really represent the values of it.

also i don't believe it matters what music you listen to when claiming edge although this is often debated

consumption of caffeine is counter what straight edge believes, just because people do it doesn't mean it isn't a contradiction.

if you take hardcore out of straight edge, you remove everything that makes it unique.

[xsecx]

I have been straight edge officially for a couple months and I took the time to look it up and understand it before I really decided I was. But I don't understand why so many people that are in my area claim to be edge but they drink caffeine and they don't listen to hardcore. I normally try not to act like a know it all but when I try to explain to them about straight edge they don't listen. it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. maybe it's just because of the environment of where I live or something. does anyone have some insight into this?

it's the high concentration of hippies.

[linsee]

I have been straight edge officially for a couple months and I took the time to look it up and understand it before I really decided I was. But I don't understand why so many people that are in my area claim to be edge but they drink caffeine and they don't listen to hardcore. I normally try not to act like a know it all but when I try to explain to them about straight edge they don't listen. it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. maybe it's just because of the environment of where I live or something. does anyone have some insight into this?

I understand what you mean. It's frustrating to be passionate about something and completely understand it, and see others that are claiming to be something, or a part of something, and don't understand it completely. Just realize you can't change everyone, no matter how frustrating they may be.

I just had an incredibly frustrating conversation with some young kids that work for me. They were talking about bands and didn't understand what I was talking about what I said hardcore. One of them was like "oh I like hardcore" but didn't know who Bane is. How is that possible?

[XCarsonSCX]

um caffeine isn't an edge break so whats the deal?
and maybe you shouldn't try to explain straight edge to them and ask them what they think edge is about to find out if they really represent the values of it.

also i don't believe it matters what music you listen to when claiming edge although this is often debated

last time I checked caffeine is a drug, and so is taurine.

and I don't really mind them not being into hardcore or punk, it's mainly that they don't know where it came from.


I understand what you mean. It's frustrating to be passionate about something and completely understand it, and see others that are claiming to be something, or a part of something, and don't understand it completely. Just realize you can't change everyone, no matter how frustrating they may be.

I just had an incredibly frustrating conversation with some young kids that work for me. They were talking about bands and didn't understand what I was talking about what I said hardcore. One of them was like "oh I like hardcore" but didn't know who Bane is. How is that possible?

yeah, you're right, I guess I can try, and if they don't listen who cares.


it's the high concentration of hippies.

lol, yeah probably. and there's not just the hippies, it's the concentration of people who just smoke cause they think there's nothing better to do, even tho we live by the beach and stuff.

[kid_ugly]

consumption of caffeine is counter what straight edge believes, just because people do it doesn't mean it isn't a contradiction.

how so? just because its a drug that is used recreationally. i could understand but i would disagree as i've never heard caffeine directly addressed in any song and its been my understanding that caffeine doesn't counter sXe beliefs.

[xsecx]

how so? just because its a drug that is used recreationally. i could understand but i would disagree as i've never heard caffeine directly addressed in any song and its been my understanding that caffeine doesn't counter sXe beliefs.

I don't even know how to respond to this. because it's a drug that's used recreationally, why should it be considered or treated any differently than any other drug? What makes caffeine so different and special from every other drug on earth? Like I said, just because people do it, doesn't mean it isn't a contradiction.

[Dummy]

Not to leave out that caffiene is totally a crutch. People easily blow as much money on caffiene beverages as most do on cigarettes. Just so they can make it through the day.

[easy]

I have been straight edge officially for a couple months and I took the time to look it up and understand it before I really decided I was. But I don't understand why so many people that are in my area claim to be edge but they drink caffeine and they don't listen to hardcore. I normally try not to act like a know it all but when I try to explain to them about straight edge they don't listen. it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. maybe it's just because of the environment of where I live or something. does anyone have some insight into this?

good observation! its bullshit that people dont recognize it as a drug!

[Pilaf]

last time I checked caffeine is a drug, and so is taurine.


Last time I checked taurine is an essential amino acid found in human muscle tissue and most complete proteins.

[xsecx]

Last time I checked taurine is an essential amino acid found in human muscle tissue and most complete proteins.

and? it's being concentrated and putting it into energy drinks but not for any kind of health benefit.

[JoeyX]

xsecx, can we put like guidelines or things so these posts don't keep coming up? So if they do you can just be like, "refer to post 31: on caffeine" haha.

[CarlaRant]

xsecx, can we put like guidelines or things so these posts don't keep coming up? So if they do you can just be like, "refer to post 31: on caffeine" haha.

Second that.

[xsecx]

Second that.

I've always hated this kind of attitude on a board. If people want to come here and ask the same question, and have the same conversation, I think they should be able to. FAQ's just seem completely devoid of character and I never want this place to turn into somewhere that people ask a question about straight edge and rather than creating dialog someone just gets pointed to a faq.

[Lifestyle_X]

true.
i'm at this dreadlock forum, if you ask a question about dreads, how to maintain them or w/e, they always nag about 'use the search option' and 'see sticky', ... there's no actual conversation in that forum, so sad..

[rodrigo]

true.
i'm at this dreadlock forum, if you ask a question about dreads, how to maintain them or w/e, they always nag about 'use the search option' and 'see sticky', ... there's no actual conversation in that forum, so sad..

yeah... doesnt that make you wanna cut your hair, hippie!

[Lifestyle_X]

i was waiting for someone to post this :p

[xMaggotAzzAx]

I'm relatively new to straight edge and the best thing about this forum is having real people out there not a stupid bit of text in the FAQ that you can understand, relate to, probe further, having that ability to listen to firsthand experience is great. People will always need advice on topics to do with edge and with the veteran edgers here to help it makes for a better forum

[JoeyX]

I've always hated this kind of attitude on a board. If people want to come here and ask the same question, and have the same conversation, I think they should be able to. FAQ's just seem completely devoid of character and I never want this place to turn into somewhere that people ask a question about straight edge and rather than creating dialog someone just gets pointed to a faq.

I understand what you mean. I just feel like every single week, one of us is answering the same question. I don't know, I guess I agree with you, it just kinda becomes redundant.

[SamuraiExx]

Im not claiming straight edge cause I dont fully understand it just yet. Im kinda confused on this caffeine subject. I mean I kinda understand like energy drinks or coffee but things like sodas i dont understand. I drink sodas all the time but its not like im drinking them for my energy or anything like that Im just simply drinking it cause im thirsty and I enjoy the taste. Its not contributing to my death or my health, if anything its benefiting me.

[straightXed]

Im not claiming straight edge cause I dont fully understand it just yet. Im kinda confused on this caffeine subject. I mean I kinda understand like energy drinks or coffee but things like sodas i dont understand. I drink sodas all the time but its not like im drinking them for my energy or anything like that Im just simply drinking it cause im thirsty and I enjoy the taste. Its not contributing to my death or my health, if anything its benefiting me.

Yeah but you can avoid caffinated sodas, there is no reason for you to drink caffinated ones when there are loads of alternatives. I mean you could drink an occasional beer because you like the taste and it wouldn't really be a major contributing factor to your death or ill health...that really isn't the point. The point is that its a drug in both cases and there is no medicinal reason for you to take it, straightedge isn't about moderate use of drugs, its a stance against drug use (recreational). I wouldn't try and qualify its usage by what effects it has on you or if you consume it to feel the benifit of the drug, i break it down like this: Is caffeine a drug? Is using that drug consistant with the premise of what straightedge is?

But i would like to say that caffeine is a pretty nasty drug and does have ill effects of your health, i'm just mentioning that for your own information and am not suggesting that its effects on your health should be the reasoning you use to decide if you do it or not with regards to straightedge.

I hope that helps, i'm not sure if i explained what i am trying to say very well.

[SamuraiExx]

Hmm well what Im trying to figure out is when straight edge was first manifested, did they have the message in their mind to not drink sodas, chocolate bars, etc. I figured if the founders and veterans of straightedge first formed the image and existance of straightedge they were not thinking of the consumption of simple hershey bar or something. Im not saying thats entirely true or anything, tell me if im wrong. It seems to me through the hardcore music and scene they were going through, caffeine was something that was not on their minds. I get the reason I guess behind not consuming caffeine but I dont get it at the same time. If a drug is something that is absorbed through the body to alter its normal processes, then you could say that about any element, chemical, mineral, etc. If I eat some speghetti or any form of pasta if you will, then you could say pasta is a drug. Pasta is known to stimulate the mind and body, to make it feel more awake, alert, and perform better. Someone could possibly get addicted to the benefits of pasta. (i say pasta cause Im not sure what the chemical or whatever in it is called) Just as people can become addicted to video games, gambling, internet, etc. So as a result, pasta MUST be a drug. its a substance injested into the body that alters the normal body function with potential addiction. So that raises the question, If straightedge's ways/practices can outlaw a simple natural substance known as caffeine, why would pasta be considered less value then that?

[straightXed]

Hmm well what Im trying to figure out is when straight edge was first manifested, did they have the message in their mind to not drink sodas, chocolate bars, etc. I figured if the founders and veterans of straightedge first formed the image and existance of straightedge they were not thinking of the consumption of simple hershey bar or something. Im not saying thats entirely true or anything, tell me if im wrong. It seems to me through the hardcore music and scene they were going through, caffeine was something that was not on their minds. I get the reason I guess behind not consuming caffeine but I dont get it at the same time. If a drug is something that is absorbed through the body to alter its normal processes, then you could say that about any element, chemical, mineral, etc. If I eat some speghetti or any form of pasta if you will, then you could say pasta is a drug. Pasta is known to stimulate the mind and body, to make it feel more awake, alert, and perform better. Someone could possibly get addicted to the benefits of pasta. (i say pasta cause Im not sure what the chemical or whatever in it is called) Just as people can become addicted to video games, gambling, internet, etc. So as a result, pasta MUST be a drug. its a substance injested into the body that alters the normal body function with potential addiction. So that raises the question, If straightedge's ways/practices can outlaw a simple natural substance known as caffeine, why would pasta be considered less value then that?

Yeah but when it first started people would also drink a beer, its a different beast now to what it was then.

However a bar of chocolate has a negligable amount of caffeine in, sodas have a lot more, it doesn't occur naturally it is an additive and it does cause effects.

You can't refer to anything as a drug...caffeine is a drug because it meets the criteria to be called such, its chemical build, its effects on the central nervous system etc. all give way to it being a drug. Pasta is not a drug, its a complex carbohydrate, the body gains energy from it and hence the benefits in feeling more energetic etc. The body needs sustinance though, it doesn't need caffeine. Just because we need food to fuel our bodies doesn't make it an addiction nor does it make food a drug. You may really like pasta but i think you would be hard pressed to define it as a drug, i think the idea of being addicted to it is a real stretch. Bottom line is that caffeine is catogorically defined as a drug and pasta is not and the cristeria that define a drug are met by caffeine and not by pasta or video games, gambling or internet for that matter. Pasta doesn't effect me the way drugs do, its not a straightedge issue at all.

[SamuraiExx]

yea that makes sense. Thanks for clarifying

[straightXed]

yea that makes sense. Thanks for clarifying

No worries, you can go hit your local dealer up for some spaghetti carbonara now!

[kid_ugly]

just because people do it, doesn't mean it isn't a contradiction.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=iRcxW_pFN9o

is ian mackaye a walking contradiction?

[rodrigo]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=iRcxW_pFN9o

is ian mackaye a walking contradiction?

how is he a contradiction?

[xsecx]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=iRcxW_pFN9o

is ian mackaye a walking contradiction?

yes. I don't understand why kids think that somehow dude's opinion is somehow infallible and the ultimate say on everything.

[rodrigo]

yes. I don't understand why kids think that somehow dude's opinion is somehow infallible and the ultimate say on everything.

i dont think he is.
dude's just not straight edge and his view on it shouldnt really be followed, and i'm not sure but i dont think i've ever heard him say that he's straight edge on that video.

[xsecx]

i dont think he is.
dude's just not straight edge and his view on it shouldnt really be followed, and i'm not sure but i dont think i've ever heard him say that he's straight edge on that video.

he implied it at the end.

[rodrigo]

he implied it at the end.

yeah, to me it seems that he's not actually implying it but trying to distance himself of it and dumb kids who think he's a bible.

specially if we consider that what is straight edge is not just a couple of song he wrote, i wouldnt say he's straight edge and i dont think he really considers himself that.

[xsecx]

yeah, to me it seems that he's not actually implying it but trying to distance himself of it and dumb kids who think he's a bible.

specially if we consider that what is straight edge is not just a couple of song he wrote, i wouldnt say he's straight edge and i dont think he really considers himself that.

he's doing both. he's calling out a stupid kid, but he's also saying that question is stupid. either way, I don't really care what he thinks about anything just like he doesn't care what I think.

[SgtD]

what he believed back then in the 80's about sxe was altered by the people in Boston in that very era, and altered his views so much, that it became a movement. from then on, sxe became totally different, it started to become more of a movement and I don't think his opinion is relevant from then on, because it's all so distant from what it was when it started.

[kcullenss]

I understand your problem with caffeine but I don't think you have to listen to hardcore to be sxe. I mean I think you should at least know enough about straight edge to know it took its roots in hardcore, but no I don't think you need to listen. Personally I really like hardcore but didn't like it to much when I first learned about and became edge but I have come to love it.

[straightXed]

I understand your problem with caffeine but I don't think you have to listen to hardcore to be sxe. I mean I think you should at least know enough about straight edge to know it took its roots in hardcore, but no I don't think you need to listen. Personally I really like hardcore but didn't like it to much when I first learned about and became edge but I have come to love it.

Yeah but the two are inherrently joined, why would you refer to yourself as straightedge (a subculture that embraces and is indacative of involvement in the hardcore scene) if you don't like hardcore? It really makes no sense when you actually examine it, its like calling yourself a supporter of a certain sport team with no interest in that sport...it makes for a ill fitting description of yourself. I mean plenty of people abstain from drugs with no interest in hardcore but to call them straightedge is innacurate, they are drug free...what makes straightedge a more unique term is that added factor of it being steeped in and enriched by all the cultural aspects of the hardcore music scene...its fashions, sounds, history, collective mindset, values and atitudes. To negate that really does negate a defining part of what builds up the term "straightedge" by definition. As you have come to love it you will hopefully also want to preserve the subculture instead of letting the term, straightedge, become a catch all term that will lose definition and meaning, the connection with hardcore would lessen and become unimportant in peoples minds and eventually the term will be pretty much meaningless. As it stands i feel good about it and want to ensure the term continues to be descriptive of the people who made it a valid term and who it best describes.