The Movement....

[JoeyX]

The Zeitgeist Movement.....your thoughts/opinion/views.

I believe in The Zeitgeist Movement, call me crazy.

[xsecx]

The Zeitgeist Movement.....your thoughts/opinion/views.

I believe in The Zeitgeist Movement, call me crazy.

why would you assume that people would know what this is?

[JoeyX]

why would you assume that people would know what this is?

Damn, how ignorant of me. I assumed people had seen this, strike me down, joking.

here is a link to the free videos

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

If interested.

[xsecx]

Damn, how ignorant of me. I assumed people had seen this, strike me down, joking.

here is a link to the free videos

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

If interested.

yeah but that doesn't really explain anything unless someone is willing to watch something.

[JoeyX]

yeah but that doesn't really explain anything unless someone is willing to watch something.

I swear you people are out to get me haha.

I put this video up, if people choose to watch it and reply their opinions, then that is what I'm looking for, other posts don't have an explanation on videos posted, just posted. Choose to click if you want, or don't.

[JoeyX]

Also, there is A LOT to explain, so if you choose to watch the video and stay interested then keep watching it gets better, if you don't believe it or find it phony, than choose otherwise. I'm not gonna give an explanation because it will be one-sided, so I'm giving the option for people to just watch it without a biased opinion on it already, and see what they say.

[xsecx]

Also, there is A LOT to explain, so if you choose to watch the video and stay interested then keep watching it gets better, if you don't believe it or find it phony, than choose otherwise. I'm not gonna give an explanation because it will be one-sided, so I'm giving the option for people to just watch it without a biased opinion on it already, and see what they say.

yeah but you're not really giving anyone a reason to look at it. if you can't even put it into a couple of sentences as to what it's about, why should anyone watch the video?

[straightXed]

I believe it exists.

Oh, and you are crazy.

[JoeyX]

I believe it exists.

Oh, and you are crazy.

Haha thanks.

[CarlaRant]

I've heard of this, but never really looked into until now. The descriptions are a bit vague, but I'll check out the movie.

[JoeyX]

I've heard of this, but never really looked into until now. The descriptions are a bit vague, but I'll check out the movie.

It does bring up quite a stir in beliefs. But I like it whether or not someone believes, because it shows that people are asking questions, and the day that we stop questioning our governments and general life, we have a problem.

[lo0m]

i don't like zeitgeist movie in particular but i'm opened to all this conspiracy thing... still not able to tell what really is and what isn't possible...

[JoeyX]

i don't like zeitgeist movie in particular but i'm opened to all this conspiracy thing... still not able to tell what really is and what isn't possible...

What don't you like about The Zeitgeist movie, like the entire thing, parts...the whole ideal, just wonderin'.

[lo0m]

what i dislike about zeitgeist and similar movies (eg Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11, etc) is that on one side the creators often criticise massmedia journalists that they're subjective and that they put things out of context but on the other hand they do this themselves often. This can be more easily seen in Moore's movies but I had similar feeling from Zeitgeist too. I'm not evaluating any of this movies, it's just that there are rightfield "pro-government" journalist assholes and there are also leftfield journalists with the same mistakes.
btw Have you seen a movie called "Obama Deception"? it's even more interesting that zeitgeist (but it can also suffer with the same flaws) and there are some quotes from KRS-One - and those are the words every american (or person in general) should hear.. he's really smart guy.. go find it on youtube or google video :-)

[JoeyX]

what i dislike about zeitgeist and similar movies (eg Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11, etc) is that on one side the creators often criticise massmedia journalists that they're subjective and that they put things out of context but on the other hand they do this themselves often. This can be more easily seen in Moore's movies but I had similar feeling from Zeitgeist too. I'm not evaluating any of this movies, it's just that there are rightfield "pro-government" journalist assholes and there are also leftfield journalists with the same mistakes.
btw Have you seen a movie called "Obama Deception"? it's even more interesting that zeitgeist (but it can also suffer with the same flaws) and there are some quotes from KRS-One - and those are the words every american (or person in general) should hear.. he's really smart guy.. go find it on youtube or google video :-)

Oh yeah, I completely agree. Both sides can be very biased at times, and not consider any other points of view. I do agree with you completely on that. I have not seen "Obama Deception", but I'm going to look it up soon, probably later tonight when I have time to watch it like 3or4 times, I watch things repeatedly so I don't miss anything and fully understand points of views in these subjects. I've watched Zeitgeist like 4 times haha.

[JoeyX]

That video is really great. The Obama Deception video. I really do believe a lot of that, especially things like "secret meetings" which is illegal for them to have. I also believe what KRS-One says, about how we were on the verge of a revolution against Bush and government, but then they put a "black mask"(black president) in, and he says there is going to be change, so everybody sits back and is ok with that.

Now obviously I'm not a racist person, I hate racist people more than anything in this world to be exact. But I do believe that a lot of people voted for him simply because of his race, and he so called for "change". To me, like they say, he is just another puppet to the government, but his intelligent speaking, his kindness, his different approaches on how he speaks about issues, and I also believe the fact that his race all have everything to do with why the government loves having him as a president, we wanted change, so they gave us a different "type" of president that we see, but in actuality, he is no different then the rest. He does what he is told, in my opinion and research.

Like they say, being the president is like being a wrestler. On TV they all hate each other, just like democrats and republicans argue over issues and battle for their votes, but behind the scenes, they are all friends, doing what they are told by the government.

[xsecx]

yeah but you're not really giving anyone a reason to look at it. if you can't even put it into a couple of sentences as to what it's about, why should anyone watch the video?

man dusty, you're right, that's a great point. if someone believes in something and can't even basically describe what it is, they must be a threadkiller who should be ignored, like this post was.

[JoeyX]

man dusty, you're right, that's a great point. if someone believes in something and can't even basically describe what it is, they must be a threadkiller who should be ignored, like this post was.

Once again, I chose not to give my outlook on this subject, because it would more than likely become biased as I do believe in this subject. So I chose to leave it there, for someone who might want to randomly educate and learn about it, and choose from themselves, damn I'm such an asshole and apparently can't describe what its about. Please learn that people have different ideals and views on things, thats why I didn't say anything on what it was about, because your outlook on it may differ from mine. So I choose to let the person decide their belief on it. Damn, how rude of me.

[xsecx]

Once again, I chose not to give my outlook on this subject, because it would more than likely become biased as I do believe in this subject. So I chose to leave it there, for someone who might want to randomly educate and learn about it, and choose from themselves, damn I'm such an asshole and apparently can't describe what its about. Please learn that people have different ideals and views on things, thats why I didn't say anything on what it was about, because your outlook on it may differ from mine. So I choose to let the person decide their belief on it. Damn, how rude of me.

do you even understand that most people have no clue what the subject even is? I still have no idea what this thing is even about and the fact that you can't even say what it is, doesn't really give me or anyone else a reason to go look into it any deeper. If you want to have a discussion, you should be prepared to actually do that.

[lo0m]

oh, hey, why don't you just watch it? you could see it propably at least 100 times if you wouldn't insist on some description... and if you still insist on a description, there is imdb.com or almighty google.. everyone interested could have a description just a second from the feeling of needing one (shit, is this still in english? :-) ).. I mean, if you don't have a reason to look up some info which would take you just a second, why the hell are you wasting your time instisting on JoeyX to write one? that's .. weird...

[xsecx]

oh, hey, why don't you just watch it? you could see it propably at least 100 times if you wouldn't insist on some description... and if you still insist on a description, there is imdb.com or almighty google.. everyone interested could have a description just a second from the feeling of needing one (shit, is this still in english? :-) ).. I mean, if you don't have a reason to look up some info which would take you just a second, why the hell are you wasting your time instisting on JoeyX to write one? that's .. weird...

because no one can give me a real reason to? The almighty google is also pretty damn vague about this too. Joey posted this to talk about it, so why wouldn't he want to talk about it? For that matter, why wouldn't you? So it's weird to expect someone who brings something up to be prepared to explain what something is?

[lo0m]

to clarify my point: if some information provoked you to dig deeper - to discuss it, than you could also obtain some information yourself.. on the other hand - yes, maybe some info would be great, but it's not THAT serious misconduct, is it?


For that matter, why wouldn't you?
sorry, don't get it.. me? why?

[xsecx]

to clarify my point: if some information provoked you to dig deeper - to discuss it, than you could also obtain some information yourself.. on the other hand - yes, maybe some info would be great, but it's not THAT serious misconduct, is it?


if your entire point is to discuss it with people, then yes it is. there's nothing in this thread that actually provides any information on it other than the name of a movie, and even that wasn't even in the first post.



sorry, don't get it.. me? why?
because you've seen it.

[straightXed]

So is the discussion about the movie thing or Zeitgeist in general?

[JoeyX]

So is the discussion about the movie thing or Zeitgeist in general?

Just Zeitgeist in general, and you're overall thoughts of it.

[straightXed]

Just Zeitgeist in general, and you're overall thoughts of it.

Oh in that case...i believe it exists!

[JoeyX]

Oh in that case...i believe it exists!

So you believe 9/11 was an inside job and how the government uses religion to sway the opinion of the people?

I mean I'm not disagreeing with you at all, because that is exactly what I believe, but I'm just wondering.

I mean more The Zeitgeist Movement, rather than the definition of the word Zeitgeist

[straightXed]

So you believe 9/11 was an inside job and how the government uses religion to sway the opinion of the people?

Nope, i don't see conclusive evidence of that.


I mean I'm not disagreeing with you at all, because that is exactly what I believe, but I'm just wondering.

You believe it was an inside job? Why?

You believe the government uses religion to dictate peoples opinion? In what way? And is it just religion? What else? Is media a much more influential way to give people an opinion to believe?





I mean more The Zeitgeist Movement, rather than the definition of the word Zeitgeist

so i gather. So you are part of this movement?

[xsecx]

So you believe 9/11 was an inside job and how the government uses religion to sway the opinion of the people?

I mean I'm not disagreeing with you at all, because that is exactly what I believe, but I'm just wondering.

I mean more The Zeitgeist Movement, rather than the definition of the word Zeitgeist

27 posts in and we finally get some kind of idea what you're actually talking about.

[nataliefayeg]

27 posts in and we finally get some kind of idea what you're actually talking about.

I finally know what this thread is about! Yay! I even tried to watch the movie but I fell asleep within the first 2 minutes. I agree about giving a little summary of what you're talking about unless it's something that almost everyone must know a little bit about because it's every where. I don't believe in conspiracies. Especially ones about the government like 9/11 being an inside job and controlling us with religion or whatever you believe they do with religion. I need a lot of proof to be able to belief something and there just isn't enough proof on these subjects to make me believe.

[JoeyX]

I finally know what this thread is about! Yay! I even tried to watch the movie but I fell asleep within the first 2 minutes. I agree about giving a little summary of what you're talking about unless it's something that almost everyone must know a little bit about because it's every where. I don't believe in conspiracies. Especially ones about the government like 9/11 being an inside job and controlling us with religion or whatever you believe they do with religion. I need a lot of proof to be able to belief something and there just isn't enough proof on these subjects to make me believe.

Well watch the video longer than 2 minutes and you'll see proof. Also, by stating "I don't believe in conspiracies", why is that? You can't even give it a chance that it is possible, or is our government just working perfectly in your eyes?

[JoeyX]

Nope, i don't see conclusive evidence of that.

How is all the evidence in those videos not conclusive? They show things that happened that shouldn't of happened, scientifically(reported by firefighters there, building architects, policemen that were there, civilians that were there, etc., how is that not enough evidence?)
Also, the government still has not, and will not give an explanation on many many important questions about 9/11.

You believe it was an inside job? Why?

Because what I see and read and reported by notable sources, who also believe 9/11 was an inside job, in my eyes is conclusive evidence, not even "by me eyes", its right there in front of you, watch videos, listen/read documented reports by very notable sources.

You believe the government uses religion to dictate peoples opinion? In what way? And is it just religion? What else? Is media a much more influential way to give people an opinion to believe?

Are you argueing that the government has never used religion to sway our opinions? It is done everyday, look at the news, the government controls what is and what is not on the news, if they don't like something that is going to be reported they stop it. Also, proven by many many sources. So yes the media does influence a lot of what we believe, because people persist on believing that was is reported on "channel 9 news"(example), is so called obviously true, because its what the news says. I don't watch the news on tv, and will never watch the news on tv, or read the paper. I get documented news from actual sources where they report on a 'happening' without a biased outlook, they give the rundown on what actually happened, details, and not the "juicy parts" that will give them a higher tv rating, which is what most media does.

I'm not saying religion is bad, or religion is wrong....whatever. That's another discussion, my problem is, I believe they USE religion, to sway your opinion. When they say things like "god will guide us through this war"(never actually said), but things of that nature as said alot, in the media, by officials in government, and that gets you to support their laws and acts more and more.


so i gather. So you are part of this movement?

Yes, I'am a part of this movement, and have been for awhile. Actually on 9/11, another group I'm in called 9/11 TRUTH, is going to be handing out flyers, and dvds on this issue.

Now please do not attack me on my beliefs. I'm not asking you to agree or disagree. I only ask people to see and inform themselves by learning what we teach/preach, but we don't not BEG/ASK/PLEAD/ETC. for you to believe. We want someone to believe if THEY believe in our movement and the same things we believe.

We are not bad people, we are not "non-supporters" of our country. I love my country, I love living here, I love the people in it. But I do think our government is very corrupt, very wrong in many many ways, and I also believe does whatever it can to re-write things like our constitution and make their own set of laws and standards, not for our benefit but for their own financial and personal gain.

People get so caught up in politics with things like Democrats Vs. Republicans, think about it? Yes, their ideals are different, but are they actually different? Now in a perfect world, they are different. Like said in the 'Obama Deception' video, by a former governer "Politics in America TODAY is identical to pro-wrestling(WWF/WWE), in front of the cameras and the public, we all hate each other. I'm gonna kick my opponents butt, I'm gonna wail him from here to high-water, and beat the crap out of him. Yet, behind the scenes, we all are friends, we all go out to dinner together, its showbiz".

Another good quote, "Left and Right mean nothing, the only difference is(democrats/republicans), are you working for Wall Street, or are you trying to defend the people..."

[nataliefayeg]

Well watch the video longer than 2 minutes and you'll see proof. Also, by stating "I don't believe in conspiracies", why is that? You can't even give it a chance that it is possible, or is our government just working perfectly in your eyes?

The government never works perfectly. I just don't care enough to make others believe some conspiracy that will never change anything. They never get us anywhere. I think people are usually gullible when they believe in conspiracies like 9/11.

[JoeyX]

The government never works perfectly. I just don't care enough to make others believe some conspiracy that will never change anything. They never get us anywhere. I think people are usually gullible when they believe in conspiracies like 9/11.

Obviously even if we had a government that was not corrupt(in my opinion), it still wouldn't work perfectly, I agree on that. But at least it would try, and be a government based on its people and not themselves and world and financial and personal gain. That's also fine if you just don't care, however when you have to do civil military training(non-optional) if you are between the ages of 21-25, a 3 month long training, for JUST IN CASE IDEALS, but have to do it as a law/requirement, then do not complain, because you just said you don't care enough. Obama has been trying to pass a law(if you will), that every citizen between the ages of 21-25 has to do basic 3month military training. That is not freedom, I do believe that all americans should be willing to fight for our freedom, but at the end of the day, if someone chooses NOT to fight for our country, that is their freedom/right, that is what this country is about. Just like if someone wants to burn their countries flag, it isn't necessarily right, but they have the freedom to do it, because that is what our country is completely about.

I do believe people are also very gullable to conspiracies. I do not agree 150% of everything Zeitgeist Movement says, or 9/11 Truth movement says, but I believe MOST things, which I feel is enough to support the cause.

Also to say that change cannot happen( I just don't care enough to make others believe some conspiracy that will never change anything. ), is just not true. The more people who believe in this issue, is less people who support the government, which in terms, someday the people will have the power, and overrun the government. I'm not saying THAT WILL or WILL NOT happen, I'm saying that its not impossible, its very possible.

[straightXed]

How is all the evidence in those videos not conclusive? They show things that happened that shouldn't of happened, scientifically(reported by firefighters there, building architects, policemen that were there, civilians that were there, etc., how is that not enough evidence?)
Also, the government still has not, and will not give an explanation on many many important questions about 9/11.

I haven't watched the videos, i wasn't given reason too. I was under the impression from your previous post that it wasn't a post specifically regarding the video...now it is?

So what is the conclusive evidence that its an inside job? How is it conclusive? Because its in a conspiracy video? You could get people to counter what these people have said, does that make it conclusive? You will need to point to something that is beyond question and preferably from an objective source for it to be a bit more conclusive.

What are the important questions that you require answers from the government on...surely if there are unanswered questions you don't have a conclusive case.




Because what I see and read and reported by notable sources, who also believe 9/11 was an inside job, in my eyes is conclusive evidence, not even "by me eyes", its right there in front of you, watch videos, listen/read documented reports by very notable sources.

Who exactly are these notable sources? If a notable source saying they disagree with that viewpoint put that in front of you would you believe that too? You say its put forward by people who also believe its an inside job...that doesn't seem very objective...it sounds like they are looking for anything that points to what they are trying to prove and ignoring anything that goes against...i wouldn't mind betting these notable people have a big supply of alluminium foil also!


Are you argueing that the government has never used religion to sway our opinions?

no, i am asking you to give explanation. Its a question not an argument.


It is done everyday, look at the news, the government controls what is and what is not on the news, if they don't like something that is going to be reported they stop it. Also, proven by many many sources.

I think you have a rather sensational viewpoint here but i fail to see how this is an example of religion swaying opinions, perhaps you could address that.



So yes the media does influence a lot of what we believe, because people persist on believing that was is reported on "channel 9 news"(example), is so called obviously true, because its what the news says.

Yeah much like the media about this Zeitgeist movement, its all one sided, produced by people who are only interested in portraying their own agenda and viewpoint and as such completely inconclusive. I woul look seriously at objective reporting about this movement and not take it on its own word or face value especially as it is concerned with a certain amount of conspiracy type of view. As poor as channel 9 news maybe there really is nothing to say that this movement is any better and from an objective point of view could actually be a lot worse.



I don't watch the news on tv, and will never watch the news on tv, or read the paper. I get documented news from actual sources where they report on a 'happening' without a biased outlook, they give the rundown on what actually happened, details, and not the "juicy parts" that will give them a higher tv rating, which is what most media does.

Yet you are prepared to follow this movement based on information put forward by this movement...quite an interesting juxtaposition.





Yes, I'am a part of this movement, and have been for awhile. Actually on 9/11, another group I'm in called 9/11 TRUTH, is going to be handing out flyers, and dvds on this issue.

Great, so will you be using non affiliated media to support your cause? Is there any plan to lobby government spokespeople on your findings and petitioning the opening of a legitimate investigation into the findings you and your movement have made? Or is it just going to be spreading unsupported documantation like most conspiracy movements? I am hoping its not the later.


Now please do not attack me on my beliefs.

Why would i attack you on them...i will scrutinise them and question them heavily but you should expect that. Surely you want to hold beliefs that hold up to questioning and scrutiny?




I'm not asking you to agree or disagree.

Well i won't simply agree without solid evidence, objective evidence. So if you are not asking for me to agree or disagree what would you like the outcome to be? Some kind of limbo between agreeing and disagreeing? Surely you would want one or the other?


I only ask people to see and inform themselves by learning what we teach/preach, but we don't not BEG/ASK/PLEAD/ETC. for you to believe. We want someone to believe if THEY believe in our movement and the same things we believe.

Well if you make a conclusive case with your teachings then i will be able to believe but if you are not able to teach or preach a conclusive case to me when all i require is a conclusive and objective arguments and sound reasoning then i would look at the people that do believe it and ask if they were believing a little too easily or not questioning it hard enough. I am happy to believe if there is significant reason to do so.


We are not bad people, we are not "non-supporters" of our country. I love my country, I love living here, I love the people in it. But I do think our government is very corrupt, very wrong in many many ways, and I also believe does whatever it can to re-write things like our constitution and make their own set of laws and standards, not for our benefit but for their own financial and personal gain.

Can you be more specific, examples?


People get so caught up in politics with things like Democrats Vs. Republicans, think about it? Yes, their ideals are different, but are they actually different? Now in a perfect world, they are different. Like said in the 'Obama Deception' video, by a former governer "Politics in America TODAY is identical to pro-wrestling(WWF/WWE), in front of the cameras and the public, we all hate each other. I'm gonna kick my opponents butt, I'm gonna wail him from here to high-water, and beat the crap out of him. Yet, behind the scenes, we all are friends, we all go out to dinner together, its showbiz".

Not really sure on the relevance of this but its not really revoloutionary insight. Have you ever looked at how politics functions in other countries? America has a particular brand of getting politics out there, that is not questionable but i am not sure what the point of this particular part of the post is. What are you saying with it? What makes you think they hate each other...is it not the ideals and policies of the opposition they hate in the forefront of the media? Why is it a personal hate you attribute it too? Why can people that work together in a field of polotics with differing views not have dinner together? Why would that be wrong?


Another good quote, "Left and Right mean nothing, the only difference is(democrats/republicans), are you working for Wall Street, or are you trying to defend the people..."

Yeah, i don't think its a very good quote. But hey.

[straightXed]

The government never works perfectly. I just don't care enough to make others believe some conspiracy that will never change anything. They never get us anywhere. I think people are usually gullible when they believe in conspiracies like 9/11.

They are often really well egineered pices of work and should be given credit on some level. They use great tricks to allow the follower to really bite, they use subtley techniques to give people the oppertunity to think they are drawing their own conclusions when in reality they are presenting it in such a way that you have little choice but to draw that conclusion. Its not even necessarily that these people are gullable. People who bite can often be incredibly smart in many ways but just not aware or not looking to be completely objective at the time. There are mass amounts of suggestion and leading involved and i really think its quite clever, if someone wants to believe something and you give them a slight reason to believe that further well then it just snowballs. Its a really fascinating exercise i think.

[JoeyX]

I haven't watched the videos, i wasn't given reason too. I was under the impression from your previous post that it wasn't a post specifically regarding the video...now it is?

The video give a lot of non-biased evidence. From people who ARE/WERE in government, who tell you how things are ran. Now I mean if it was like 1 or 2 people in government, I could understand the typical, "well they are just saying that" ordeal, but there are many many many many people, again if you watch the videos, who are like I said NOTABLE people, who give great evidence, and further examples and proof of these conspiracies.


So what is the conclusive evidence that its an inside job? How is it conclusive? Because its in a conspiracy video? You could get people to counter what these people have said, does that make it conclusive? You will need to point to something that is beyond question and preferably from an objective source for it to be a bit more conclusive.

Conclusive evidence such as, there were bombs in set up in the buildings, if you watch the videos, it shows smoke and parts of the building collapsing that weren't even close to where the plane hit. Pieces of Thermite Chips were found on site, that had no place to be in that building for any reason, why were they there? EVEN IF the 2 main buildings that fell,....so called fell because of the planes. What about WT(building 7). It was never hit by a plane or anything, but somehow went down the same day, imploded, for what reason? What caused that?


What are the important questions that you require answers from the government on...surely if there are unanswered questions you don't have a conclusive case.

I have honestly too many to list, but for example the WTC(building 7), that should've never went down. Why did it go down? Nothing it hit it. It was not attacked. Never reported to be attacked. Also, if it WAS a bowing 757 plane that hit the pentagon, why is there a hole(plane it hit, answered), but why are the windows perfectly intact and not shattered from where the wings of a Bowing 757's wings WOULD'VE hit, its not possible any other way, physically. Even if it was possible, wouldn't the explosion of all the gas, etc., that explosion that they apparently say burned all evidence of the plane,.....an explosion THAT BIG would've shook that building enough to break those windows. But no, they stayed intact, and were perfectly fine. Once again, in this building, they also found pieces of planted explosions on the inner walls.






Who exactly are these notable sources? If a notable source saying they disagree with that viewpoint put that in front of you would you believe that too? You say its put forward by people who also believe its an inside job...that doesn't seem very objective...it sounds like they are looking for anything that points to what they are trying to prove and ignoring anything that goes against...i wouldn't mind betting these notable people have a big supply of alluminium foil also!

I'm not going to go through the list, because there is obviously way too many. But if you please watch the video, you will see FBI agents, Former Governors, politicians, Wall Street workers, firefighters who were there, policemen who were there, and even non-notable sources as citizens like ourselves.



I think you have a rather sensational viewpoint here but i fail to see how this is an example of religion swaying opinions, perhaps you could address that.
They sway peoples views by using religion. Its simple, they use the word GOD in convincing speeches, which shouldn't be allowed. They shouldn't preach that GOD will bring our men home, or GOD will do this or that. It shouldn't be used. Period.





Yeah much like the media about this Zeitgeist movement, its all one sided, produced by people who are only interested in portraying their own agenda and viewpoint and as such completely inconclusive. I woul look seriously at objective reporting about this movement and not take it on its own word or face value especially as it is concerned with a certain amount of conspiracy type of view. As poor as channel 9 news maybe there really is nothing to say that this movement is any better and from an objective point of view could actually be a lot worse.

I agree with you completely that Zeitgeist is biased. They/we believe what we believe, but doesn't everybody? However, I just didn't watch The Zeitgeist movies one day and was like "oh well then it MUST be true", ya know. I looked into it, I read reports that I could find, I watched presidential speeches on things that shouldn't happen, like the 21-25yrs of age civilian military training. I've watched videos of people asking Bush about 9/11 and him stuttering and not being able to answer simple questions, I have looked into a lot of this plenty before going ahead and just believing. Hell when I 1st saw it, I was like .....no waayyy, whatever!!! But then I looked into it more and more, and its what I believe now.





Yet you are prepared to follow this movement based on information put forward by this movement...quite an interesting juxtaposition.

Yes I'am. Because I believe in this movement, not just because of what they say, but because I've done my own research like stated above, and I believe they are right.







Great, so will you be using non affiliated media to support your cause? Is there any plan to lobby government spokespeople on your findings and petitioning the opening of a legitimate investigation into the findings you and your movement have made? Or is it just going to be spreading unsupported documantation like most conspiracy movements? I am hoping its not the later.

Our findings have been questioned many many times to government and presidential officals, and like I stated above, they can't answer these questions. They don't. They even admitted at one point that they can't answer these questions.




Why would i attack you on them...i will scrutinise them and question them heavily but you should expect that. Surely you want to hold beliefs that hold up to questioning and scrutiny?

No, I'm not saying YOU WOULD attack me, but I know this is a very touchy subject for alot of people, so I don't want people to think I'm some whacked out crazy person who believes in these conspiracies and I hate the world or something. I mean I even admit, its crazy to believe in something like this because stuff like this shouldn't happen in our world, but in my eyes and through my research I believe it to be true.






Well i won't simply agree without solid evidence, objective evidence. So if you are not asking for me to agree or disagree what would you like the outcome to be? Some kind of limbo between agreeing and disagreeing? Surely you would want one or the other?

I hope you watch the video, and see further evidence, in my eyes when notable people like FBI agents, governors, politicians, wall street workers, etc., who all work and are tied to the government, say these things and further physical proof of things like when architects WHO BUILT the world trade centers and worked on them, also even say those buildings shouldn't have went down. The sections that were hit by planes should've been the only effected parts. Even if the outer part of the entire building went down, the inner steel structure should have stayed up, but again thermite chips were found, which help take that down, but were they there?



Not really sure on the relevance of this but its not really revoloutionary insight. Have you ever looked at how politics functions in other countries? America has a particular brand of getting politics out there, that is not questionable but i am not sure what the point of this particular part of the post is. What are you saying with it? What makes you think they hate each other...is it not the ideals and policies of the opposition they hate in the forefront of the media? Why is it a personal hate you attribute it too? Why can people that work together in a field of polotics with differing views not have dinner together? Why would that be wrong?

I might have not explained this entirely correct. I'm not saying they can't go out to dinner together in all actuality of course haha. What I'm saying is, in the end they are no different from each other. There policies remain the same, just Obama promised CHANGE, but is following and proceeding to put forth a lot of BUSH's old policies. They are all the same, they are puppets, do as the government tells you or die. Just like Kennedy, he died because he wanted to basically in a sense rewrite government, he wanted to change it, make it better for the people, and was shot in the head, now you can say coincidence, I say government related. They didn't like that he wasn't another one of their puppets.




Yeah, i don't think its a very good quote. But hey.

I mean if you don't think its a good quote thats fine. But I think its very true. People who work for wall street, care about personal financial gain, thats all wall street is, selling/buying/trading, in the end....for profit. So you either work for financial gain, or you work for the people.

I really hope you not only watch The Zeitgeist Movies, but also watch The Obama Deception(new favorite of mine), and don't necessarily believe/not believe them straight from what they say, research some of it, look it up.

[xsecx]

The video give a lot of non-biased evidence. From people who ARE/WERE in government, who tell you how things are ran. Now I mean if it was like 1 or 2 people in government, I could understand the typical, "well they are just saying that" ordeal, but there are many many many many people, again if you watch the videos, who are like I said NOTABLE people, who give great evidence, and further examples and proof of these conspiracies.



Conclusive evidence such as, there were bombs in set up in the buildings, if you watch the videos, it shows smoke and parts of the building collapsing that weren't even close to where the plane hit. Pieces of Thermite Chips were found on site, that had no place to be in that building for any reason, why were they there? EVEN IF the 2 main buildings that fell,....so called fell because of the planes. What about WT(building 7). It was never hit by a plane or anything, but somehow went down the same day, imploded, for what reason? What caused that?



I have honestly too many to list, but for example the WTC(building 7), that should've never went down. Why did it go down? Nothing it hit it. It was not attacked. Never reported to be attacked. Also, if it WAS a bowing 757 plane that hit the pentagon, why is there a hole(plane it hit, answered), but why are the windows perfectly intact and not shattered from where the wings of a Bowing 757's wings WOULD'VE hit, its not possible any other way, physically. Even if it was possible, wouldn't the explosion of all the gas, etc., that explosion that they apparently say burned all evidence of the plane,.....an explosion THAT BIG would've shook that building enough to break those windows. But no, they stayed intact, and were perfectly fine. Once again, in this building, they also found pieces of planted explosions on the inner walls.







I'm not going to go through the list, because there is obviously way too many. But if you please watch the video, you will see FBI agents, Former Governors, politicians, Wall Street workers, firefighters who were there, policemen who were there, and even non-notable sources as citizens like ourselves.



They sway peoples views by using religion. Its simple, they use the word GOD in convincing speeches, which shouldn't be allowed. They shouldn't preach that GOD will bring our men home, or GOD will do this or that. It shouldn't be used. Period.






I agree with you completely that Zeitgeist is biased. They/we believe what we believe, but doesn't everybody? However, I just didn't watch The Zeitgeist movies one day and was like "oh well then it MUST be true", ya know. I looked into it, I read reports that I could find, I watched presidential speeches on things that shouldn't happen, like the 21-25yrs of age civilian military training. I've watched videos of people asking Bush about 9/11 and him stuttering and not being able to answer simple questions, I have looked into a lot of this plenty before going ahead and just believing. Hell when I 1st saw it, I was like .....no waayyy, whatever!!! But then I looked into it more and more, and its what I believe now.






Yes I'am. Because I believe in this movement, not just because of what they say, but because I've done my own research like stated above, and I believe they are right.








Our findings have been questioned many many times to government and presidential officals, and like I stated above, they can't answer these questions. They don't. They even admitted at one point that they can't answer these questions.





No, I'm not saying YOU WOULD attack me, but I know this is a very touchy subject for alot of people, so I don't want people to think I'm some whacked out crazy person who believes in these conspiracies and I hate the world or something. I mean I even admit, its crazy to believe in something like this because stuff like this shouldn't happen in our world, but in my eyes and through my research I believe it to be true.







I hope you watch the video, and see further evidence, in my eyes when notable people like FBI agents, governors, politicians, wall street workers, etc., who all work and are tied to the government, say these things and further physical proof of things like when architects WHO BUILT the world trade centers and worked on them, also even say those buildings shouldn't have went down. The sections that were hit by planes should've been the only effected parts. Even if the outer part of the entire building went down, the inner steel structure should have stayed up, but again thermite chips were found, which help take that down, but were they there?



Not really sure on the relevance of this but its not really revoloutionary insight. Have you ever looked at how politics functions in other countries? America has a particular brand of getting politics out there, that is not questionable but i am not sure what the point of this particular part of the post is. What are you saying with it? What makes you think they hate each other...is it not the ideals and policies of the opposition they hate in the forefront of the media? Why is it a personal hate you attribute it too? Why can people that work together in a field of polotics with differing views not have dinner together? Why would that be wrong?

I might have not explained this entirely correct. I'm not saying they can't go out to dinner together in all actuality of course haha. What I'm saying is, in the end they are no different from each other. There policies remain the same, just Obama promised CHANGE, but is following and proceeding to put forth a lot of BUSH's old policies. They are all the same, they are puppets, do as the government tells you or die. Just like Kennedy, he died because he wanted to basically in a sense rewrite government, he wanted to change it, make it better for the people, and was shot in the head, now you can say coincidence, I say government related. They didn't like that he wasn't another one of their puppets.





I mean if you don't think its a good quote thats fine. But I think its very true. People who work for wall street, care about personal financial gain, thats all wall street is, selling/buying/trading, in the end....for profit. So you either work for financial gain, or you work for the people.

I really hope you not only watch The Zeitgeist Movies, but also watch The Obama Deception(new favorite of mine), and don't necessarily believe/not believe them straight from what they say, research some of it, look it up.

so uh. have you ever seen the pentagon? know where it is? Realize there's no way anything other than a plane hit that building because a shit ton of people saw it?

[straightXed]

The video give a lot of non-biased evidence. From people who ARE/WERE in government, who tell you how things are ran. Now I mean if it was like 1 or 2 people in government, I could understand the typical, "well they are just saying that" ordeal, but there are many many many many people, again if you watch the videos, who are like I said NOTABLE people, who give great evidence, and further examples and proof of these conspiracies.

You miss the fact that the videos are put together to form one view point. Its not objective. And notable how, what makes someone notable?




Conclusive evidence such as, there were bombs in set up in the buildings, if you watch the videos, it shows smoke and parts of the building collapsing that weren't even close to where the plane hit. Pieces of Thermite Chips were found on site, that had no place to be in that building for any reason, why were they there? EVEN IF the 2 main buildings that fell,....so called fell because of the planes. What about WT(building 7). It was never hit by a plane or anything, but somehow went down the same day, imploded, for what reason? What caused that?

Sounds like you have a lot of unanswered questions there, you may even formulate theorys as to what happened but none of it is significant prrof of it being an inside job.




I have honestly too many to list, but for example the WTC(building 7), that should've never went down. Why did it go down? Nothing it hit it. It was not attacked. Never reported to be attacked. Also, if it WAS a bowing 757 plane that hit the pentagon, why is there a hole(plane it hit, answered), but why are the windows perfectly intact and not shattered from where the wings of a Bowing 757's wings WOULD'VE hit, its not possible any other way, physically. Even if it was possible, wouldn't the explosion of all the gas, etc., that explosion that they apparently say burned all evidence of the plane,.....an explosion THAT BIG would've shook that building enough to break those windows. But no, they stayed intact, and were perfectly fine. Once again, in this building, they also found pieces of planted explosions on the inner walls.

Again you have a lot of unanswered questions and no cohesive definite answer. At best you can come up with theory, conspiracy theory. You don't have fact's, there are so many variables as to why all these things could have happened, you are attaching to the sensational ones presented to you. Good luck with that but you don't have evidence enough for it to be fact and without some major investigation and reconstruction you are really unlikely to ever have that evidence.




I'm not going to go through the list, because there is obviously way too many. But if you please watch the video, you will see FBI agents, Former Governors, politicians, Wall Street workers, firefighters who were there, policemen who were there, and even non-notable sources as citizens like ourselves.

why is a citizen non notable source? If they were there why is their account of what they saw less notable? If Other "notable" sources contradict these reports then you are left with something that is simply non conclusive. Governors, Politicians, FBI agents etc. are not instanteaneously credible just because of there work and regardless of what they say you need evidence not just peoples accounts of things particularly as they vary from other peoples accounts of things. How many people on your videos give information that goes against the theory of it being an inside job, its driving home one point of view and thats great that you are down with that and believe all that but its not conclusive at all and is biased.




They sway peoples views by using religion. Its simple, they use the word GOD in convincing speeches, which shouldn't be allowed. They shouldn't preach that GOD will bring our men home, or GOD will do this or that. It shouldn't be used. Period.

Well do they refer to a specific god, or a specific manifestation of how god should be seen?

Is there anything else that shouldn't be allowed? And if so, why shouldn't it be allowed?

Is that all you have for how religion is used to sway people? I was hoping there would be a lot more insight on this, i would gladly hear more if you have it?



I agree with you completely that Zeitgeist is biased. They/we believe what we believe, but doesn't everybody? However, I just didn't watch The Zeitgeist movies one day and was like "oh well then it MUST be true", ya know. I looked into it, I read reports that I could find, I watched presidential speeches on things that shouldn't happen, like the 21-25yrs of age civilian military training. I've watched videos of people asking Bush about 9/11 and him stuttering and not being able to answer simple questions, I have looked into a lot of this plenty before going ahead and just believing. Hell when I 1st saw it, I was like .....no waayyy, whatever!!! But then I looked into it more and more, and its what I believe now.

Do you actively seek to disprove yourself though, do you look for all the viewpoints opposing your belief, do you submerge yourself in biased media from the other side?

All you have given here is a couple of biased videos from a biased movement so for anyone else looking we don't have any independant information, camn you point to reports or evidence that makes it more than just a theory, to something that can make it conclusive? I mean bush stutters if you ask him his name, thats a difficult question to him so him stumbling on "simple" questions about 9/11 is nothing more than evidence that he his not that great at discourse. I mean look at how many times he messes up in public speaking and when being asked anything.

I don't doubt that you didn't believe it at first, like i said in another post, it is left for you to put the pieces together, its a natural reaction that we all have, if i watched it a bunch of times theres no reason i wouldn't start to think it makes sense. Thats whhat its designed to do.







Yes I'am. Because I believe in this movement, not just because of what they say, but because I've done my own research like stated above, and I believe they are right.

Well if you feel you have conclusive evidence and are dead set that bush stumbling etc. is enough for you to believe then i am happy for you. I personally would need a lot more facts, figures, hard evidence, really objective discussion etc before i followed it. But seriously, i hope you have a lot of fun with it and enjoy following it up, you seem to really be into it.




Our findings have been questioned many many times to government and presidential officals, and like I stated above, they can't answer these questions. They don't. They even admitted at one point that they can't answer these questions.

What was their reason for not being able to answer them?






No, I'm not saying YOU WOULD attack me, but I know this is a very touchy subject for alot of people, so I don't want people to think I'm some whacked out crazy person who believes in these conspiracies and I hate the world or something. I mean I even admit, its crazy to believe in something like this because stuff like this shouldn't happen in our world, but in my eyes and through my research I believe it to be true.

Well perhaps with all your research you could make a conclusive case for it? Perhaps point to all the things that make you think its true?





I hope you watch the video, and see further evidence, in my eyes when notable people like FBI agents, governors, politicians, wall street workers, etc., who all work and are tied to the government, say these things and further physical proof of things like when architects WHO BUILT the world trade centers and worked on them, also even say those buildings shouldn't have went down. The sections that were hit by planes should've been the only effected parts. Even if the outer part of the entire building went down, the inner steel structure should have stayed up, but again thermite chips were found, which help take that down, but were they there?

You realise that even if you had significant scientific tests that really could prove exactly how the plane did effect the behaviour of the buildings, if you could acount for the random and chaotic chain of events it would incur, even then you wouldn't have proof of it being an inside job. You at best may uncover a possible theory of a cover up for something else. Nothing you are showing me here in this discussion is conclusive or believeable right now. I don't doubt you have other things that has convinced you but just hearing you say you have seen and read other less biased things is not enough.






I might have not explained this entirely correct. I'm not saying they can't go out to dinner together in all actuality of course haha. What I'm saying is, in the end they are no different from each other. There policies remain the same, just Obama promised CHANGE, but is following and proceeding to put forth a lot of BUSH's old policies. They are all the same, they are puppets, do as the government tells you or die. Just like Kennedy, he died because he wanted to basically in a sense rewrite government, he wanted to change it, make it better for the people, and was shot in the head, now you can say coincidence, I say government related. They didn't like that he wasn't another one of their puppets.

Ok, well first off you are selecting one group of people who might not like kennedy or his actions, before you decide that its down to the government don't you think you should look at how many other groups of people might not agree with kenedys actions?

You are in a very middle scale of politics, the difference won't be massive and often oppositions will agree on many matters, the two partys are not that removed from each other, neither is extreme from the other. A lot of things that began under bush would probably be best to be continued with in the politicians interests, change is a slow process when you are talking about a whole country, even for the changes that define one party from another. If it were more extreme change it would be harder but yes more noticable and probaly millitary involved.






I mean if you don't think its a good quote thats fine. But I think its very true. People who work for wall street, care about personal financial gain, thats all wall street is, selling/buying/trading, in the end....for profit. So you either work for financial gain, or you work for the people.

rather sweeping commentry there...my cousin works in finance, lots of trading etc. He is the most caring and compassionate, most giving person in my entire family in my opinion. He works for great finacial gain, enjoys it thouroughly but is a family man with a lot of love to give. Its also quite common for the biggest buisness moguls and high flying traders to be incredibly philanthropistic, i just don't think the quote is useful enough to be applied in many areas other than perhaps the context it was used in at its inception. And possibly i wouldn't agree with it even then.


I really hope you not only watch The Zeitgeist Movies, but also watch The Obama Deception(new favorite of mine), and don't necessarily believe/not believe them straight from what they say, research some of it, look it up.

I will always research things and listen when people come forth with challenging ideas but i am sure that conspiracy movement media is a little old hat for me now and i prefer media that isn't so blatent in being all about leading me down a biased route.

[lo0m]

so uh. have you ever seen the pentagon? know where it is? Realize there's no way anything other than a plane hit that building because a shit ton of people saw it?

yeah, black hole propably mysteriously appeared there and ate the whole plane and your country is ruled by ants from that time on :-) ... i don't know who blew up ground zero but it was certainly not Osama.. i don't know what happened with Pentagon but i also don't know about single footage or photo that would prove that it was a transport aircraft.. shit, the whole plane would have to disappear...

[xsecx]

yeah, black hole propably mysteriously appeared there and ate the whole plane and your country is ruled by ants from that time on :-) ... i don't know who blew up ground zero but it was certainly not Osama.. i don't know what happened with Pentagon but i also don't know about single footage or photo that would prove that it was a transport aircraft.. shit, the whole plane would have to disappear...

well no, it couldn't have been him, he's theoretically still alive and living in caves.

so do you know where the pentagon is? What kind of area it's in? These conspiracies only make sense if you've never seen the place.

[xCrucialDudex]

Damn, how ignorant of me. I assumed people had seen this, strike me down, joking.

here is a link to the free videos

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

If interested.

I'm mostly intrigued by the work and ideas of Jacque Fresco.

[lo0m]

I'm mostly intrigued by the work and ideas of Jacque Fresco.

isn't that the guy who was working on Venus Project (or something similar)? resource based economy? i've just read about him - did he wrote any books? if so, could you recommend some?

[xCrucialDudex]

isn't that the guy who was working on Venus Project (or something similar)? resource based economy? i've just read about him - did he wrote any books? if so, could you recommend some?

Yes it's the guy. What he does is quite amazing and a lot of his ideas could be implemented years ago. I do not necessarily agree with everything he advocates but I find SOO many of his ideas amazing. I saw a couple of documentaries about him and his The Venus Project (Future By Design, A Conversation With Social Innovator Futurist Jacque Fresco), a bootleg record of his lecture at a University (got it from here: http://torrents.thepiratebay.org/4868629/Jacque_Fresco_-_Lecture__Penn_State_Greater_Allegheny_campus.4868 629.TPB.torrent seeded over 8Gb of this already! Each day someone takes interest in this which I think is really great :)) and I also skimmed through the FAQ section on The Venus Project official web-site.