is coffee....

[pryncessXxX]

Can anybody tell me,if I start drinking coffee again,is this non edge? And,are teddy grahams vegan. [I loved em as a kid,wanna buy some IF they are] :D

[lo0m]

according to PETA (http://www.peta.org/accidentallyVegan/VeganShoppingQS-Snacks.asp?Category=Snacks), some are...
the coffee thing.. i believe that coffee, tea,medicaments, etc. are in "grey area".. it really depends on you and your choice...

[SgtD]

caffeine is a drug. so no, drinking coffee is NOT edge. end of story. there's a huge thread about it, look it up for more info, if you want to

[Marion]

But what if she's not addicted to it, and if it does not alter her mind?
loom talks about tea, among other stuffs, I personnally occasionally drink tea, and it does strictly nothing to me, except warming my vocals folds before I sing of stuff, so I don't really see the point. Of course, if it causes an addiction I get it, but if not...

[Lifestyle_X]

But what if she's not addicted to it, and if it does not alter her mind?
loom talks about tea, among other stuffs, I personnally occasionally drink tea, and it does strictly nothing to me, except warming my vocals folds before I sing of stuff, so I don't really see the point. Of course, if it causes an addiction I get it, but if not...

You can have a beer without being addicted.

[Teratus]

ahh I've been here for soo long now in this grey area

Caffine maybe a drug but so is paracetamol for exsample


I know paracetamol is medical but then again so is morphine, prozac and canabis in some cases

all 3 of them are used in abusive ways to get high

the only drugs that will break you of being edge in my opinion
are mind altering drugs/stimulents

anything that gets you high basicly
being drunk is a form of being high so i class it all the same really
also a drug that damages your body

caffine im fine with although i very rarely drink it these days
if anything salt does more damage to you lol

Even though i personally dont use drugs even for medical purposes
you wont be breaking edge if you enjoy a cup of tea on occasion
not in my opinion anyway

[xsecx]

ahh I've been here for soo long now in this grey area

Caffine maybe a drug but so is paracetamol for exsample


I know paracetamol is medical but then again so is morphine, prozac and canabis in some cases

all 3 of them are used in abusive ways to get high

the only drugs that will break you of being edge in my opinion
are mind altering drugs/stimulents

anything that gets you high basicly
being drunk is a form of being high so i class it all the same really
also a drug that damages your body

caffine im fine with although i very rarely drink it these days
if anything salt does more damage to you lol

Even though i personally dont use drugs even for medical purposes
you wont be breaking edge if you enjoy a cup of tea on occasion
not in my opinion anyway
caffeine is a stimulant though. it's just a socially accepted one.

[Teratus]

caffeine is a stimulant though. it's just a socially accepted one.

yeah it is but it doesnt have any effect on you really
it just keeps you awake if you drink alot of it
thats about it

the same could be said for alot of sweets and stuff

[xsecx]

yeah it is but it doesnt have any effect on you really
it just keeps you awake if you drink alot of it
thats about it

the same could be said for alot of sweets and stuff

or it's just that because it's so common and it's use is accepted that people aren't really sure what it does.

If you're against drug use, why is caffeine ok but other drugs aren't?

I'd also suggest reading this thread: http://sxe.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5504

[Teratus]

Its only harmful drugs

things that alter your brain chemistry to make you do dumb things
also drugs that do damage to your body and can kill you


thats all i avoid

I rarely drink caffine anyway so it doesnt bother me too much XD

[xsecx]

Its only harmful drugs

things that alter your brain chemistry to make you do dumb things
also drugs that do damage to your body and can kill you


thats all i avoid

I rarely drink caffine anyway so it doesnt bother me too much XD

caffeine does everything you just said though.

[straightXed]

Its only harmful drugs

things that alter your brain chemistry to make you do dumb things
also drugs that do damage to your body and can kill you


thats all i avoid

I rarely drink caffine anyway so it doesnt bother me too much XD



Caffeine is pretty harmful, has even been known to cause death.

[pryncessXxX]

Wow. Thanks. Well,I haven't had coffee for years and I've never been online til now,so I didn't know about other sites. Glad to know though,cuz people all over say "oh its ok." And others "yo,coffee is not edge." That I figured,but wasn't sure. Now,if I get decaf coffee|tea I was told there's trace amounts of caffeine. True or false? I would drink decaf stuff if it has none. Could pretty much take or leave coffee or tea at all. Thanks again. :D

[CarlaRant]

Can anybody tell me,if I start drinking coffee again,is this non edge? And,are teddy grahams vegan. [I loved em as a kid,wanna buy some IF they are] :D

Teddy Grahams! Yum...the chocolate, chocolate chip and cinnamon flavors are vegan. The honey flavored ones are a gray area....some vegans are not willing to eat honey, so do.

[xsecx]

Wow. Thanks. Well,I haven't had coffee for years and I've never been online til now,so I didn't know about other sites. Glad to know though,cuz people all over say "oh its ok." And others "yo,coffee is not edge." That I figured,but wasn't sure. Now,if I get decaf coffee|tea I was told there's trace amounts of caffeine. True or false? I would drink decaf stuff if it has none. Could pretty much take or leave coffee or tea at all. Thanks again. :D

there's trace amounts but no where near enough to actually effect the body.

[lo0m]

but that really does not represent the culture, or does it? i've met edgers drinking coke or coffee... i don't drink for other reasons so i might be still wrong on this.. anyway, Carla, honey is definitely not vegan.. how it even could be?

[xvunderx]

but that really does not represent the culture, or does it? i've met edgers drinking coke or coffee... i don't drink for other reasons so i might be still wrong on this.. anyway, Carla, honey is definitely not vegan.. how it even could be?

To me honey is like the vegan Caffeine, it obviously flaunts the basic principals of veganism, but some decide it's too mild a case to bother with.

At the same time, the bees that produce the honey you see in a store, were used to pollinate the fields of vegetables, grains etc of the food you eat, and make the homey as a result. Most crops are not pollinated by the bees that live in the area a great deal is done by bee keepers who bring their bees to a farm to do the job. So even if you eat just what grows out of the ground, farmed bees had a hand in it.

[xsecx]

but that really does not represent the culture, or does it? i've met edgers drinking coke or coffee... i don't drink for other reasons so i might be still wrong on this.. anyway, Carla, honey is definitely not vegan.. how it even could be?

just because people do something that's inconsistent doesn't mean the question shouldn't be asked and folks shouldn't think about what they do in terms of their professed beliefs.

[Teratus]

Isnt there caffine in Chocolate too?


i think personally its a grey area

I only abstain from Alchohol, Tobbacco, Illigal/abused Drugs and sleeping about
well i guess i also abstain from going out too

but that has nothing to do with being edge really

[straightXed]

Isnt there caffine in Chocolate too?


i think personally its a grey area

I only abstain from Alchohol, Tobbacco, Illigal/abused Drugs and sleeping about
well i guess i also abstain from going out too

but that has nothing to do with being edge really

There is a negligable of caffeine in chocolate. The way i see it is its not really that grey if you do it in accordance with some logical reasoning. Like avoiding the use of any recreational drug is sound reasoning but avoiding that drug when it occurs in such small amounts that it will have no effect is not so sound and just makes it a burden with ne real reason. So with that in mind i would omit the idea of steering clear of the minimal caffeine found in chocolate just as i would not be that fussed over the tiny amount found in decaf products or the miniscule amount of alcohol found in soy sauce (perhaps this would make alcohol a grey area for you?). However, sodas with added caffeine have enough do cause a physical effect, as does coffee and tea and most of all energy drinks. I see no logical reason to partake in these, there are multiple alternatives that don't require me to dose my body with a stimulant that is addictive and messes with your central nervous system among other things. For me a sensible and logical stance would be to avoid caffeine in amounts that effect the body/mind if you are against the recreational use of drugs, otherwise i struggle to see how the stance is being consistant with the actions.

[CarlaRant]

To me honey is like the vegan Caffeine, it obviously flaunts the basic principals of veganism, but some decide it's too mild a case to bother with.

At the same time, the bees that produce the honey you see in a store, were used to pollinate the fields of vegetables, grains etc of the food you eat, and make the homey as a result. Most crops are not pollinated by the bees that live in the area a great deal is done by bee keepers who bring their bees to a farm to do the job. So even if you eat just what grows out of the ground, farmed bees had a hand in it.

^this. I don't agree with people eating honey, but again, it's an deabatable issue.

On the chocolate, when I was "hardcore" about being sxe, I wouldn't eat chocolate to avoid any caffeine and any tea would be herbal. However, my diet is already so limited, so I've eat chocolate on special occassions. :D

[Marion]

There is a negligable of caffeine in chocolate. The way i see it is its not really that grey if you do it in accordance with some logical reasoning. Like avoiding the use of any recreational drug is sound reasoning but avoiding that drug when it occurs in such small amounts that it will have no effect is not so sound and just makes it a burden with ne real reason. So with that in mind i would omit the idea of steering clear of the minimal caffeine found in chocolate just as i would not be that fussed over the tiny amount found in decaf products or the miniscule amount of alcohol found in soy sauce (perhaps this would make alcohol a grey area for you?). However, sodas with added caffeine have enough do cause a physical effect, as does coffee and tea and most of all energy drinks. I see no logical reason to partake in these, there are multiple alternatives that don't require me to dose my body with a stimulant that is addictive and messes with your central nervous system among other things. For me a sensible and logical stance would be to avoid caffeine in amounts that effect the body/mind if you are against the recreational use of drugs, otherwise i struggle to see how the stance is being consistant with the actions.

that's the way I think, too. Thanks for phrasing it haha.

[straightXed]

that's the way I think, too. Thanks for phrasing it haha.

No problem, its good to know i am not the only person who thinks this way!

[Lifestyle_X]

We're quite the healthy people.

[lo0m]

There is a negligable of caffeine in chocolate. The way i see it is its not really that grey if you do it in accordance with some logical reasoning. Like avoiding the use of any recreational drug is sound reasoning but avoiding that drug when it occurs in such small amounts that it will have no effect is not so sound and just makes it a burden with ne real reason. So with that in mind i would omit the idea of steering clear of the minimal caffeine found in chocolate just as i would not be that fussed over the tiny amount found in decaf products or the miniscule amount of alcohol found in soy sauce (perhaps this would make alcohol a grey area for you?). However, sodas with added caffeine have enough do cause a physical effect, as does coffee and tea and most of all energy drinks. I see no logical reason to partake in these, there are multiple alternatives that don't require me to dose my body with a stimulant that is addictive and messes with your central nervous system among other things. For me a sensible and logical stance would be to avoid caffeine in amounts that effect the body/mind if you are against the recreational use of drugs, otherwise i struggle to see how the stance is being consistant with the actions.

sounds good..

[Teratus]

Does make sense :)

I avoid alchohol completely though even food thats cooked in it

I hate alchohol

I wouldnt even have medical treatment if alchohol was necessary

[rodrigo]

I wouldnt even have medical treatment if alchohol was necessary

that doesnt sound so smart, man.

[straightXed]

Does make sense :)

I avoid alchohol completely though even food thats cooked in it

I hate alchohol

I wouldnt even have medical treatment if alchohol was necessary

Yeah, Rodrigo is right, that isn't smart. Thats detrimental to your own health and why exactly would you be against medicine? Wheres the logic behind that?

[Teratus]

Due to my father being a alchoholic and a drug dealer

i generally have a massive Hatered towards abused substances

so basicly if its abused i dont want it in my body even as medical

its just my own personal hate for it
other people using medical drugs doesnt bother me

plus I dont really hold much Value for my own life
Misanthropy does that to people though lol

[straightXed]

Due to my father being a alchoholic and a drug dealer

I'm sorry to hear that but its not a great reason to deny yourself medicine and potentially screw yourself up...i mean haven't you seen the effect someone screwing themselves up has on others? Your father being a prime example...why would you want to deny yourself medical help if needed if it serves only to make negative ramifications?


i generally have a massive Hatered towards abused substances

Being treated medicinally is not substance abuse...its the complete opposite, its using a substance to aid and help keep healthy.


so basicly if its abused i dont want it in my body even as medical

see above. You need to see the line between drugs being abused and drugs being used positively.


its just my own personal hate for it
other people using medical drugs doesnt bother me

Your own personal hate is what i am questioning.


plus I dont really hold much Value for my own life
Misanthropy does that to people though lol

Not really sure how that is funny? I value my life quite highly and also have a healthy amount of misanthropy...the two can coincide quite naturally so i strongly contest that as any kind of logical reasoning as to why you would omit medicine. If you do feel your life has little to no value i can assure you it can easily have value and more than likely already does. You should invest some time and energy into yourself.

[Teratus]

Not really sure how that is funny? I value my life quite highly and also have a healthy amount of misanthropy...the two can coincide quite naturally so i strongly contest that as any kind of logical reasoning as to why you would omit medicine. If you do feel your life has little to no value i can assure you it can easily have value and more than likely already does. You should invest some time and energy into yourself.



I wont deny myself medical help
but i will deny myself substances like Morphine and alchohol
I'd rather live with the pain than have them anywhere near me
besides that I never want to exsperience any form of drug induced high even if its medical

the only things i do value in my life are my friends and my fantasy worlds brought on by video games and movies

I have litterally no interest in the world and what very little it has to offer
I select my friends carefully
I maybe a misanthrope but i dont hate every single human out there
I love my friends and they are the biggest reason im still here
I wouldnt do anything to hurt them not after everything they have done for me

[lo0m]

Being treated medicinally is not substance abuse...its the complete opposite, its using a substance to aid and help keep healthy.


<not a flame>
i don't want argue about this, but just to let you know - there are people that would disagree with this.. for instance regarding vaccinations: my company's (i am an employer, not an owner) ex worker was vaccinated against tetanus (lockjaw).. she ended up immobile for 5 years and had to use wheelchair. she has damaged brain and it will stay that way.. i'm not saying that every medicine is useless, rather that every medicine has it's side effects and we propably wouldn't need most of them if we nourish our bodies more healthy... also, if doctor is paid to prescribe you medicine (and they are), he may easily prescribe you more than you really need "just to be shure".. i honestly believe that counts as substance abuse even when the patient is the abused one in the end.. i wonder how many people ended up on valium and similar stuff even when they really didn't need it (or needed much less amounts)?
</not a flame>

i wouldn't refuse narcosis if they had cut my lef off as I wouldn't refuse blood transfer or propably any medical treatment if my life was in real danger. But i don't take ibuprofen when my back hurts. Ibuprofen would propably help but then I could maybe use it also next time, when my head hurts, and so on and then it would become substance abuse. But the doctor won't tell you this. He propably won't tell you about it's side effects either. :-)

[straightXed]

<not a flame>
i don't want argue about this, but just to let you know - there are people that would disagree with this.. for instance regarding vaccinations: my company's (i am an employer, not an owner) ex worker was vaccinated against tetanus (lockjaw).. she ended up immobile for 5 years and had to use wheelchair. she has damaged brain and it will stay that way.. i'm not saying that every medicine is useless, rather that every medicine has it's side effects and we propably wouldn't need most of them if we nourish our bodies more healthy... also, if doctor is paid to prescribe you medicine (and they are), he may easily prescribe you more than you really need "just to be shure".. i honestly believe that counts as substance abuse even when the patient is the abused one in the end.. i wonder how many people ended up on valium and similar stuff even when they really didn't need it (or needed much less amounts)?
</not a flame>

Missed the point though didn't you...the medicine is being used in a completely dfferent way to recreational drugs...its not being abused and the intentions are to create heallth and alleviate illness and this is the difference. I really fail to see how it is substance abuse if it is being administered with the intention of healing or relieving pain, you are refering to a break down in the way drugs are adminstered and things are misdiagnosed or doctors becoming lazy but that does not make medication substance abuse. Denying a drug on sound reasoning is all well and good, if a doctor prescibes me a course of medication i read up on that medication and don't blindly take it, the point i made however is to flat out deny medicine with no logical reasoning is silly and this makes your whole non flaming, non argument redundant.


i wouldn't refuse narcosis if they had cut my lef off as I wouldn't refuse blood transfer or propably any medical treatment if my life was in real danger. But i don't take ibuprofen when my back hurts. Ibuprofen would propably help but then I could maybe use it also next time, when my head hurts, and so on and then it would become substance abuse. But the doctor won't tell you this. He propably won't tell you about it's side effects either. :-)

Well my doctor tells me about them, i ask my doctor and i also look into it myself...to take drugs blindly on a doctors word is as bad as not taking them with some illogical reasoning that suggests medicine is bad.

If your back hurts enough you will take nsaid's, if you are just in mild discomfort then sure, taking drugs like that is not really the best thing...a doctor can't feel your pain so a lot of it is down to you. I am very active and get all kinds of strains and pains but don't use drugs however i do require nsaid's for one reoccuring condition. All you are really ponting towards is that drugs are not sweets and should be respected as having a huge effect on your body, being smart about how you take drugs is all i am hearing here but denying medicine flat out is not smart...and thats the whole point of what i have said...if you or anyone actually disagrees with that then i'd love to know why.

[straightXed]

I wont deny myself medical help
but i will deny myself substances like Morphine and alchohol
I'd rather live with the pain than have them anywhere near me
besides that I never want to exsperience any form of drug induced high even if its medical


You realise that that could cause you more harm than good? When you are actually in a position that morphine could help keep you alive then tell me you would still make that choice and if you do still make that choice you are an idiot. Is it just those substances or any medicine?



the only things i do value in my life are my friends and my fantasy worlds brought on by video games and movies

So do you value the impact of your life ending would have on your friends?


I have litterally no interest in the world and what very little it has to offer
I select my friends carefully
I maybe a misanthrope but i dont hate every single human out there
I love my friends and they are the biggest reason im still here
I wouldnt do anything to hurt them not after everything they have done for me

You wouldn't refuse morphine then? As surely to do so in the previously mentioned scenario would hurt your friends, right? Do you hate yourself?

[pryncessXxX]

Another question,a friend of mine drinks hempmilk and she says even though its made from hemp its not. Now on their boxes it say no THC but to me its like non alc beer. Yeah its free of "substances" but its still called hemp milk and non alc beer. Is this just the dumbest question or am I right to argue cuz I dunno anymore.

[xsecx]

Another question,a friend of mine drinks hempmilk and she says even though its made from hemp its not. Now on their boxes it say no THC but to me its like non alc beer. Yeah its free of "substances" but its still called hemp milk and non alc beer. Is this just the dumbest question or am I right to argue cuz I dunno anymore.

to me it's not an issue, mainly because the plant that's used to make hemp products is different from the one people smoke. If it's healthy and it doesn't get someone high, I don't have a problem with it.

[lo0m]

Missed the point though didn't you...the medicine is being used in a completely dfferent way to recreational drugs...its not being abused and the intentions are to create heallth and alleviate illness and this is the difference. I really fail to see how it is substance abuse if it is being administered with the intention of healing or relieving pain, you are refering to a break down in the way drugs are adminstered and things are misdiagnosed or doctors becoming lazy but that does not make medication substance abuse. Denying a drug on sound reasoning is all well and good, if a doctor prescibes me a course of medication i read up on that medication and don't blindly take it, the point i made however is to flat out deny medicine with no logical reasoning is silly and this makes your whole non flaming, non argument redundant.

Well my doctor tells me about them, i ask my doctor and i also look into it myself...to take drugs blindly on a doctors word is as bad as not taking them with some illogical reasoning that suggests medicine is bad.

If your back hurts enough you will take nsaid's, if you are just in mild discomfort then sure, taking drugs like that is not really the best thing...a doctor can't feel your pain so a lot of it is down to you. I am very active and get all kinds of strains and pains but don't use drugs however i do require nsaid's for one reoccuring condition. All you are really ponting towards is that drugs are not sweets and should be respected as having a huge effect on your body, being smart about how you take drugs is all i am hearing here but denying medicine flat out is not smart...and thats the whole point of what i have said...if you or anyone actually disagrees with that then i'd love to know why.

Ok, I will approach the problem from different angle. Ibuprofen is hardly a cure.. it is a pain reliever (i'm not denying it has propably one single beneficial effect - it is an anti-inflammator - but only with high doses) and numbs the nerve endings in your brain so you don't feel pain - but it's still there - your body is still ill and this pill won't cure anything. it simply turns off your body's natural ability to tell you there's something wrong. It is also an antipyretic which means it can stop your body's ability to take care of the infection itself - fever is a part of body's immune respnose to infection. on top of that, ibuprofen really messes your allimentary tract. and with higher doses, this risk becomes really dangerous. it causes nausea, melena, hematemeza, gastritis, stomach perforation, etc. and these are only acute side effects.. so i don't see how nsaid really helps you or your health..
another problem is with antibiotics.. not only that main part of cures labeled as antibiotics are not really antibiotics (natural) but chemoterapeutics but they also helps bakterias to be more resistent (and they can "learn" such resistency through zygosis). Most of antibiotics effectible in the past are not working now. We created superbacteria out of the bad bacterias but we forgot we have many bacterias in our system that we really need and we risk destroying this subtle system . And even when some antibiotics have quite good selectivity and we can to some degree take probiotics, you're again messing with how the body naturally works.
Not all pills may have side effects, I really don't know. While I agree completely that abuse is more a problem of the person,than of the drug itself ,what i'm trying to say is that I don't think it is safe to trust law to distinguish between drugs as cocaine, weed and drugs seen as cures. most illegal drugs have short-term valuable effects, too.

[straightXed]

Ok, I will approach the problem from different angle. Ibuprofen is hardly a cure.. it is a pain reliever (i'm not denying it has propably one single beneficial effect - it is an anti-inflammator - but only with high doses) and numbs the nerve endings in your brain so you don't feel pain - but it's still there - your body is still ill and this pill won't cure anything.

It cured the inflamation of my bursa so you are wrong.


it simply turns off your body's natural ability to tell you there's something wrong. It is also an antipyretic which means it can stop your body's ability to take care of the infection itself - fever is a part of body's immune respnose to infection. on top of that, ibuprofen really messes your allimentary tract. and with higher doses, this risk becomes really dangerous. it causes nausea, melena, hematemeza, gastritis, stomach perforation, etc. and these are only acute side effects.. so i don't see how nsaid really helps you or your health..

Why the hell are you focussing on one drug when this discussion is about all drugs and someone choosing not to use any drugs flat out based on the reasoning that their father was a drunk. I don't really care about all the things you can say to make a drug sound shockingly bad, i find a lot of it to be pretty much overkill and i know from previous discussions you have an agenda against medicine and don't really care about that either. The facts are you are missing the focus and point in the discussion and missing it by miles. I disagree with your commentry, as i feel it is looking at possible side effects under a microscope and blowing them out of proportion. Not saying those side effects aren't there just that your focus is slightly askew



another problem is with antibiotics.. not only that main part of cures labeled as antibiotics are not really antibiotics (natural) but chemoterapeutics but they also helps bakterias to be more resistent (and they can "learn" such resistency through zygosis). Most of antibiotics effectible in the past are not working now. We created superbacteria out of the bad bacterias but we forgot we have many bacterias in our system that we really need and we risk destroying this subtle system . And even when some antibiotics have quite good selectivity and we can to some degree take probiotics, you're again messing with how the body naturally works.
Not all pills may have side effects, I really don't know. While I agree completely that abuse is more a problem of the person,than of the drug itself ,what i'm trying to say is that I don't think it is safe to trust law to distinguish between drugs as cocaine, weed and drugs seen as cures. most illegal drugs have short-term valuable effects, too.

but no one is suggesting using law are they, not sure where you are getting that from, its like you are in a completely different discussion?! The idea here is that to abstain from medicine based on the reasoning given is illogical, dangerous and foolish. If you don't want to talk about that and just want to chat about all the things you have found out about certain medication then it doesn't really serve as a response to what i am saying at all. So maybe try an angle that is in touch with what i am discussing not what you want to type about.

[Teratus]

You wouldn't refuse morphine then? As surely to do so in the previously mentioned scenario would hurt your friends, right? Do you hate yourself?

Yes i would refuse morphine

all it is is a pain killer anyway
it just gets you wanked high so you dont feel any pain

if its used as a abused substance i will not take it

besides most injerys your body can recover from naturally

painkillers etc i do not use puerly because there is no point
headaches etc go on thier own so i dont use things like ibuprofin etc


The idea here is that to abstain from medicine based on the reasoning given is illogical, dangerous and foolish.

Ahh you think i refusce medicne because of my fathers drink and drug problem?

sorry i should be more clear on that

If a substance gets you high or is abused I dont want it in my body
its not because of my father I just dont want anything to do with it
all my father has contributed to this is my hatred towards alchohol
everything else is my own choice

[straightXed]

Yes i would refuse morphine

all it is is a pain killer anyway
it just gets you wanked high so you dont feel any pain

if its used as a abused substance i will not take it

besides most injerys your body can recover from naturally

painkillers etc i do not use puerly because there is no point
headaches etc go on thier own so i dont use things like ibuprofin etc

But its not an abused substance if its used to aliviate a huge level of pain that if omitted would make certain operations involve more complications. I am not even talking about headaches i am talking about medicine used to aid in serious medical emergencies, you would seriously choose to risk your life over the use of a drug that is administered in a controlled environment by a medical professional and used to ensure your survival rate is greatly increased? You would not really be thinking about your friends in this incident would you?



Ahh you think i refusce medicne because of my fathers drink and drug problem?

well as thats what you said, yes i do!


sorry i should be more clear on that

If a substance gets you high or is abused I dont want it in my body
its not because of my father I just dont want anything to do with it
all my father has contributed to this is my hatred towards alchohol
everything else is my own choice

well the issue here is that medicinal use is not drug abuse, its focus is not to get you high, its not a recreational use, it is being used to help you, to possibly keep you alive and so to refuse that based on the fact the substance could be abused by someone in a completely different situation is just plain stupid. But when you are actually in a situation when your life could be saved by the use of a drug and you then refuse then i will actually take you seriously...until then i think you just like the sound of refusing all drugs.

[Teratus]

Morphine is abused

thousands of people use it every day to get high

and like i said its not nessesary its just one giant pain killer

I'd rather be knocked out have the operation and then deal with the pain
besides the thought of laying there completely awake while doctors are hacking away at me just makes me feel sick

knowing me i'd probably have a panic attack and try and get away
least if i was unconcious i wouldnt know what was going on

and if i did die on the operation table then i woudlnt know about it
and tbh thats the best way to go in my eyes when your unaware of it in your sleep


its focus is not to get you high.

Morphine gets you high so you dont feel pain
thats what it does
one of my friends was in hospital a few years back and they put him on morphine he said he coudlnt remember much of anything because he was high

[straightXed]

Morphine is abused

thousands of people use it every day to get high

and like i said its not nessesary its just one giant pain killer

I'd rather be knocked out have the operation and then deal with the pain
besides the thought of laying there completely awake while doctors are hacking away at me just makes me feel sick

Its not abused when used medicinally, your logic here is completely idiotic.

If its not necessary then why does it increase chances of survival, i think you are being ignorant here.

And how do you propose to be knocked out without using drugs that can be abused elsewhere for recreational usage? You do realise opiods are used to do this right as they stop patients reacting to the trauma that surgary brings? Or are you suggesting they just beat you round the head caveman style? I have no idea why you are focussing solely on being awake through surgary, drugs that can be abused are used in many helpful ways and you, based on your really shabby logic, refuse to take them because some people look to abuse substances. Some people buy cars and look to speed and abuse laws, does that mean that you shouldn't use cars in the intended manner? I have no idea why you can't seperate medical usage of a substance from recreational usage? Sure abusing drugs for fun is bad but they also can be incredibly helpful when used to help people that require medical attention.


knowing me i'd probably have a panic attack and try and get away
least if i was unconcious i wouldnt know what was going on

You would only remain unconcious with the use of drugs (drugs that could be abused in the wrong hands) to anesthetize you from the pain. This is why your logic is completely messed up.



and if i did die on the operation table then i woudlnt know about it
and tbh thats the best way to go in my eyes when your unaware of it in your sleep

But your friends would know, and if you are going to ensure you do nothing to harm them then i would suggest taking the drugs administered to ensure you are less likely to die.





Morphine gets you high so you dont feel pain
thats what it does
one of my friends was in hospital a few years back and they put him on morphine he said he coudlnt remember much of anything because he was high

Yeah, there are lots of different drugs used that do different things, morphine is just one and there are good reasons its used. But like i said, most drugs can be abused so forget morphine, we are talking most medicine here that you are sworn off based on your logic. Its ridiculous. What was your friend in for? Does he now have a dependance on the drug? Would he have prefered to have the procedure with no drugs at all? Are you one of those people that have fillings and teeth extractions without anything to numb the pain?

[Teratus]

Its not abused when used medicinally, your logic here is completely idiotic. If its not necessary then why does it increase chances of survival, i think you are being ignorant here.

Morphine increases the chances of survival?
thats news to me all i heared was it gets you high so you dont feel pain

either way i wont use it



And how do you propose to be knocked out without using drugs that can be abused elsewhere for recreational usage? You do realise opiods are used to do this right as they stop patients reacting to the trauma that surgary brings? Or are you suggesting they just beat you round the head caveman style? I have no idea why you are focussing solely on being awake through surgary, drugs that can be abused are used in many helpful ways and you, based on your really shabby logic, refuse to take them because some people look to abuse substances. Some people buy cars and look to speed and abuse laws, does that mean that you shouldn't use cars in the intended manner? I have no idea why you can't seperate medical usage of a substance from recreational usage? Sure abusing drugs for fun is bad but they also can be incredibly helpful when used to help people that require medical attention.

Gas and as far as im aware gas isnt really used to get high



But your friends would know, and if you are going to ensure you do nothing to harm them then i would suggest taking the drugs administered to ensure you are less likely to die.

My friends alreay know how i feel about this and they all support my choices in life and respect my abstinance from drugs
not one of my friends has ever tried to force alchohol or any other drugs on me



Yeah, there are lots of different drugs used that do different things, morphine is just one and there are good reasons its used. But like i said, most drugs can be abused so forget morphine, we are talking most medicine here that you are sworn off based on your logic. Its ridiculous. What was your friend in for? Does he now have a dependance on the drug? Would he have prefered to have the procedure with no drugs at all? Are you one of those people that have fillings and teeth extractions without anything to numb the pain?

Morphine and Canabis are the only 2 drugs i know of that can be used medically and that are abused and those are the only two i really avoid

the rest of them i havent heared anything about them being abused so they dont bother me
but if my condition wasnt life threatening then i wouldnt take anything

and my friend had a Hernia operation and no he doesnt have any dependance on it (not sure on spelling)

eww mouth problems haha im luckey i've never had to have anything done to my mouth
and thats just numbs you anyway it doesnt make you high in any way
i woudlnt have anythign like that done though i hate needles i could never have one in my gums

[straightXed]

Morphine increases the chances of survival?
thats news to me all i heared was it gets you high so you dont feel pain

either way i wont use it

yes it can and that's why you refusing it without really having a clue about it makes you an idiot.


Gas and as far as im aware gas isnt really used to get high

well then you aren't that aware then. Besides they don't only use gas and we are still talking about opiods which are abused so however you look at it you have to refuse it based on this weird illogical reasoning. Guess it's caveman style for you.


My friends alreay know how i feel about this and they all support my choices in life and respect my abstinance from drugs
not one of my friends has ever tried to force alchohol or any other drugs on me

that's great but irrelevent to the point.

Morphine and Canabis are the only 2 drugs i know of that can be used medically and that are abused and those are the only two i really avoid
are you really that naive about what dugs are abused?There are so many drugs that are abused, most pers ription drugs are abused by people looking for a high, get educated on this.
[quoute]the rest of them i havent heared anything about them being abused so they dont bother me[/quote]
this way of thinking is so retarded it hurts. It's like saying if I close my eyes and don't see the problem then it doesn't exist.


but if my condition wasnt life threatening then i wouldnt take anything
well you probably would take something so long as you hadn't heard of anyone a using it. Ridiculous.

and my friend had a Hernia operation and no he doesnt have any dependance on it (not sure on spelling)so other people abusing it really had no bearing on it's use.


eww mouth problems haha im luckey i've never had to have anything done to my mouth
and thats just numbs you anyway it doesnt make you high in any way
you are serious aren't you? Jesus, what drug group do you think numbs you?


i woudlnt have anythign like that done though i hate
needles i could never have one in my gums
you will have a lot of fun in life with all this

[Teratus]

Seems your the one having fun with this :P

I dont really care anyway im kinda tired of this and its off topic lol

Sure im not well educated not that it really bothers me
I have a job and make enough money to live on thats all i need

I live a simple life and i avoid problems
the less complications the better in my opinion

I've never had a seriosus medical problem before and im not very likely to as i spend pretty much all my time at home and litterally only leave the house to go shopping and for work

I do occasionally go out and see friends but i completely avoid the night life

[straightXed]

Seems your the one having fun with this :P

I dont really care anyway im kinda tired of this and its off topic lol

Sure im not well educated not that it really bothers me
I have a job and make enough money to live on thats all i need

I live a simple life and i avoid problems
the less complications the better in my opinion

I've never had a seriosus medical problem before and im not very likely to as i spend pretty much all my time at home and litterally only leave the house to go shopping and for work

I do occasionally go out and see friends but i completely avoid the night life

So you think you will avoid serious medical problems because you spend a lot of time at home? Seriously, things just don't work that way.

So to surmise, you avoid any drugs you have heard of that have been abused but are happy to take medicine if its a drug that you are unaware of being abused. The only drugs you really avoid that have any medicinal use is canabis and morphine as you don't know about any of the others? You are not really bothered about your reasoning being logical or having any consistancy and you are going to avoid medical problems by living a sheltered existance and thats about it really.

I hope you can read that back to yourself and hear how it really sounds, theres a lot going on in this discussion and i am sure you are sick of it because your arguments are not stacking up. But the truth is you really need to re think a lot of your ideas and make them better and more cohesive and workable. You have admirable conviction but it is misplaced and you are create issues where there shouldn't be any and ignoring issues which you really shouldn't. I hope in time you change how you think on this and realise you are being quite naive.

[Teratus]

So you think you will avoid serious medical problems because you spend a lot of time at home? Seriously, things just don't work that way.

So to surmise, you avoid any drugs you have heard of that have been abused but are happy to take medicine if its a drug that you are unaware of being abused. The only drugs you really avoid that have any medicinal use is canabis and morphine as you don't know about any of the others? You are not really bothered about your reasoning being logical or having any consistancy and you are going to avoid medical problems by living a sheltered existance and thats about it really.

I hope you can read that back to yourself and hear how it really sounds, theres a lot going on in this discussion and i am sure you are sick of it because your arguments are not stacking up. But the truth is you really need to re think a lot of your ideas and make them better and more cohesive and workable. You have admirable conviction but it is misplaced and you are create issues where there shouldn't be any and ignoring issues which you really shouldn't. I hope in time you change how you think on this and realise you are being quite naive.

I do agree I am Naive, im also Vain, arrogant, stubbon and shallow lol
not that there tottally bad things its part of what makes me who i am and im all for change being your own choice and nobody elses

but to dub my argument down simply I only abstain from medical drugs that will get you high

fact is you cant avoid drugs some foods even come with minute traces of chemicals found in drugs all drugs are is a mixture of chemicals same as alot of things we use and eat every day

my abstinance is from the effects of a drug induced High thats what i am avoiding


a friend of mine was on prozac for depression
having been through that myself i know how it feels even though i was also given prozac i refused to take it and delt with my depression on my own
if anything taking it would have made me worse because thats what it has done to my friend
she's fine and happy when she under the effects of the drug
but as soon as they start to wear off she comes out of it 10 times worse which has even lead her to 4 suicide attempts last month
right now she is under constant watch by her friends and she has stopped using the drug
and in all fairness being around friends and not tkaing prozac seems to be doing alot more for her

[straightXed]

I do agree I am Naive, im also Vain, arrogant, stubbon and shallow lol
not that there tottally bad things its part of what makes me who i am and im all for change being your own choice and nobody elses

but to dub my argument down simply I only abstain from medical drugs that will get you high

fact is you cant avoid drugs some foods even come with minute traces of chemicals found in drugs all drugs are is a mixture of chemicals same as alot of things we use and eat every day

my abstinance is from the effects of a drug induced High thats what i am avoiding

Well those do seem like a bunch of nagative character traits to me, perhaps you could explain why they aren't bad?

All well and good you wanting change to be your choice but you don't seem to base your choices on anything cohesive. The point is you are saying that even if a drug that can be abused could save your life you would not take it, that takes your reasoning to the level of idiocy as i have said.



a friend of mine was on prozac for depression
having been through that myself i know how it feels even though i was also given prozac i refused to take it and delt with my depression on my own
if anything taking it would have made me worse because thats what it has done to my friend
she's fine and happy when she under the effects of the drug
but as soon as they start to wear off she comes out of it 10 times worse which has even lead her to 4 suicide attempts last month
right now she is under constant watch by her friends and she has stopped using the drug
and in all fairness being around friends and not tkaing prozac seems to be doing alot more for her

So you have had depression, eating disorders etc. you plan to avoid illness by spending a lot of time at home isn't really very fruitful it seems. Anyway, whats your point here? that you can list a drug you don't feel helped you? I would agree that anti depressants are not also a good choice but it doesn't negate the benificial properties that certain opiods can offer. You remain purposefully ignorant to these and no matter what unrelated story you bring up your logic remains idiotic and you remain ignorant.

[Teratus]

Well those do seem like a bunch of nagative character traits to me, perhaps you could explain why they aren't bad?

All well and good you wanting change to be your choice but you don't seem to base your choices on anything cohesive. The point is you are saying that even if a drug that can be abused could save your life you would not take it, that takes your reasoning to the level of idiocy as i have said.

So you have had depression, eating disorders etc. you plan to avoid illness by spending a lot of time at home isn't really very fruitful it seems. Anyway, whats your point here? that you can list a drug you don't feel helped you? I would agree that anti depressants are not also a good choice but it doesn't negate the benificial properties that certain opiods can offer. You remain purposefully ignorant to these and no matter what unrelated story you bring up your logic remains idiotic and you remain ignorant.

All my point is as I have said before

If the drug gets you High
I will refuse it

The whole debate here was that I dont want to get high ever even if it happens to be a medicaly induced side effect from a powerful painkiller

thats all

If i am ever perscribed somethign i will reserch it very carefully before deciding to take it
if the side effects of the drug are that they get you high then i will not take them thats all

[straightXed]

All my point is as I have said before

If the drug gets you High
I will refuse it

The whole debate here was that I dont want to get high ever even if it happens to be a medicaly induced side effect from a powerful painkiller

thats all

If i am ever perscribed somethign i will reserch it very carefully before deciding to take it
if the side effects of the drug are that they get you high then i will not take them thats all

I know and the fact that you would hold fast to that even if it were to have negative reprecussions to your health is what makes it ridiculous. I mean whats your reasoning for avoiding drugs in the firsts place? If its because drugs are damaging to your health then great but when in a situation when they could be beneficial to your health its stupid to refuse them. This is where you usually try to argue that the point of these drugs use is tiny and as if it has no real worth as a medical aid but you don't really seem to even understand the things they are used for that well. Butjust out of interest, what constitutes being high?

[xsecx]

All my point is as I have said before

If the drug gets you High
I will refuse it

The whole debate here was that I dont want to get high ever even if it happens to be a medicaly induced side effect from a powerful painkiller

thats all

If i am ever perscribed somethign i will reserch it very carefully before deciding to take it
if the side effects of the drug are that they get you high then i will not take them thats all

how are you defining high?

[Teratus]

High

like what normally happens when you do drugs

the whole illusion of feeling great no matter how bad you are feeling

my whole abstinance from drugs is not because of my health
If I was soo concerned about my body then I wouldnt have such a lame diet nor would i be planning on having scarification and tattoos

I avoid them becuase I do not want things in my body that will effect my perceptions and control

I want to stay in control of my body and as many of its functions as possible
I dont want a drug deciding what i want to do

If anything I am nothing more than a control freak

[Krish]

Caffeine is pretty harmful, has even been known to cause death.

Yeah ... if you drink 10 galons! Coffee is not as harmful as you think. It has a short vasoconstrictory (narrowing the blood vessels) and a long vasodilatatory (widening the blood vessels) effect. Caffeine boosts metabolism and latest studies show that it can shift cholesterol production towards HDL (good cholesterol). So if you want to cause death with coffee you have to drink a lot of it for a short time. Combined with tobaco it's harmful altho'.
In the end ... as Ian from Minor Threat said "There's no set of rules" and I think coffee is a personal choice.

[straightXed]

Yeah ... if you drink 10 galons! Coffee is not as harmful as you think. It has a short vasoconstrictory (narrowing the blood vessels) and a long vasodilatatory (widening the blood vessels) effect. Caffeine boosts metabolism and latest studies show that it can shift cholesterol production towards HDL (good cholesterol). So if you want to cause death with coffee you have to drink a lot of it for a short time. Combined with tobaco it's harmful altho'.
In the end ... as Ian from Minor Threat said "There's no set of rules" and I think coffee is a personal choice.

Depending on the level of caffiene really, 10 galons is a ridiculously high estimation of things, there are products available on the market here with a very high concentration of caffiene that 600 ml would be enough to administer a lethal dose, admittedly that is in a product that is sold in 20ml servings but there are coffee houses here that have strong enough coffee to administer a potentially lethal dose of caffiene in as few as eight cups. This is less thatb a fith of a gallon so 10 gallons is way off. But obviously its still just a precautious estimation and a lot would depend on the persons health and ability to handle coffee, people build up an ability to consume more when they constantly expose themselves but other health factors could mean it takes even less.

Sure you can look at some of the things that caffiene has going for it but you are very much ignoring the vast amount of negative attributes to the drug such as increasing stress levels, effecting blood flow and pressure, effects to healthy sleep patterns, disruption to healthy diet, effects upon central nervous system (this tallys with the increased metabolism but also the lowered blood flow), dependence and withdrawal, irritability. There is many more if you want to find them but what is more interesting is that caffiene stays in your system for a good while and having much more than a single cup of coffee will not increase the few benifits it has but will add to the list of negative things it does for you, in short, more than a cup does you very little good. Long term usage of caffiene has a lot of negative effects on the body as any stimulant does, this of course is is the worst problem, constant use over years will constantly be taking its toll on people. Accumulative damage does add up and will often catch you up so this does negate the idea of having to drink a lot in a short time.

All the positives that caffiene gives can be found in other things and these are often things that won't have the negative things that go along with caffiene. I changed my metabolic rate by simply being more active and training my body and understanding the effects of nutrition (eating the right foods at the right times in accordance with what my body needs).

I will say that quoting ian mackaye is a very tired thing to do and does make your argument lose value and the last point. Ian was just a guy like anyone else here, he is not some quotable figure to be given any more respect than anyone else here, i don't take his words as anything to be any more noteworthy than the words of yourself. The quote actually doesn't negate any of what i said though, i am simply suggesting people examine caffiene use, its necessisty, how it fits with a stance against recreational drug use, how you could reconcile caffiene use whilst being against all other drugs in terms of having a consistant viewpoint. Thats not me giving rules its just urging people to think about it more and question things.